Wow--My FFM seals better when not washed daily!

[plr66]

First, my humble apologies to Wulfman (Den) for my jokes about this in the past. OMG, I can't believe I'm saying this, being sort of OCD about my daily morning baby-shampoo washing of both my nasal pillows and FFM cushions for the past 18 months of my cpap experience. (I also always wash my face about an hour before going to bed).

I'm still a believer that daily washing of nasal pillows improves the seal. At least for me.

But on my recent trip to Central America, I got slack about using my Clorox wipes on my FFM cushion for several mornings (unable to use baby shampoo due to water issues there). Still washed my face every night. And lo & behold, I had the best seal I've yet had in many months with my FFM. Consistently!

Upon return to normal conditions here, I still can't let myself go more than 4 days without washing the cushion---just because. But honestly, this is a major surprise to me, so I thought I'd share it. Won't be okay for everyone, as I never would have dreamed it would be for me. But I have had no skin problems as a result, and I sleep so much better due to decreased leaking with my FFM. Like I said. Wow.

[Wulfman]

First, my humble apologies to Wulfman (Den) for my jokes about this in the past. OMG, I can't believe I'm saying this, being sort of OCD about my daily morning baby-shampoo washing of both my nasal pillows and FFM cushions for the past 18 months of my cpap experience. (I also always wash my face about an hour before going to bed).

I'm still a believer that daily washing of nasal pillows improves the seal. At least for me.

But on my recent trip to Central America, I got slack about using my Clorox wipes on my FFM cushion for several mornings (unable to use baby shampoo due to water issues there). Still washed my face every night. And lo & behold, I had the best seal I've yet had in many months with my FFM. Consistently!

Upon return to normal conditions here, I still can't let myself go more than 4 days without washing the cushion---just because. But honestly, this is a major surprise to me, so I thought I'd share it. Won't be okay for everyone, as I never would have dreamed it would be for me. But I have had no skin problems as a result, and I sleep so much better due to decreased leaking with my FFM. Like I said. Wow.

Well, IT'S ABOUT TIME!!!

Soooooo, I see you've finally discovered my "secret" for a good mask seal.


Den

[DoriC]

Hmm,interesting. So what do you think the reason could be for the better seal? Could it be that the cushion gets a little tacky due to face oils? I'm consistent about daily washing with baby shampoo and if I forget then I use the cpap wipes. Mike's leak rate is acceptable but not always. I'm sure I've read Den's view on this subject many times but I guess it didn't register!

[SleepingUgly]

So, Den, what is your technique? How often do you wash your mask? And do you wash your face before bed? I am willing to try anything....except not washing my face (although maybe I could do it earlier in the evening).

I'm still a bit distraught about not being able to use creams/Renova at night... It just doesn't seem right not to "treat" my aging face before going to bed.

[Wulfman]

Hmm,interesting. So what do you think the reason could be for the better seal? Could it be that the cushion gets a little tacky due to face oils? I'm consistent about daily washing with baby shampoo and if I forget then I use the cpap wipes. Mike's leak rate is acceptable but not always. I'm sure I've read Den's view on this subject many times but I guess it didn't register!

That's my theory. Now, even though I don't "wash" my mask, I do wipe off the seal with the palm of my hand (yeah, it's clean) before putting the mask on on......and I do rinse and dry my face before going to bed.

"To each his own" and "Your mileage may vary", but it's worked for me for almost five years......and it's still the same original mask with the same original seals (I only replaced the headgear last year).


Den

[SleepingUgly]

Now, even though I don't "wash" my mask, I do wipe off the seal with the palm of my hand (yeah, it's clean) before putting the mask on on......and I do rinse and dry my face before going to bed.

You NEVER wash the mask?

[Wulfman]

So, Den, what is your technique? How often do you wash your mask? And do you wash your face before bed? I am willing to try anything....except not washing my face (although maybe I could do it earlier in the evening).

I'm still a bit distraught about not being able to use creams/Renova at night... It just doesn't seem right not to "treat" my aging face before going to bed.

I think I answered the others in my last post, but I actually "wash" the entire mask (with Dawn dishwashing liquid) probably about 3 - 4 times a year. Sometimes I'll give the seals a quick wash in the bathroom sink with some of my wife's Softsoap. I've never completely disassembled my mask and have only taken the seals off a few times (usually by accident when the retainer ring popped off).

This mask (particularly the seal) is like the "Energizer Bunny".......
I have several extra identical masks, quite a few extra seals and sets of headgear......but quite some time ago, I decided I was going to do an endurance test on this one to see just how long things will last. It just keeps getting more comfortable and the seal keeps getting better with age.
SOME things DO get better with age.....


Den

[Rebecca R]

........
This mask (particularly the seal) is like the "Energizer Bunny".......
I have several extra identical masks, quite a few extra seals and sets of headgear......but quite some time ago, I decided I was going to do an endurance test on this one to see just how long things will last. It just keeps getting more comfortable and the seal keeps getting better with age.
SOME things DO get better with age.....
Den

Osmosis? Becoming At One, with the mask?

r

[Wulfman]

........
This mask (particularly the seal) is like the "Energizer Bunny".......
I have several extra identical masks, quite a few extra seals and sets of headgear......but quite some time ago, I decided I was going to do an endurance test on this one to see just how long things will last. It just keeps getting more comfortable and the seal keeps getting better with age.
SOME things DO get better with age.....
Den

Osmosis? Becoming At One, with the mask?

r

Maybe "symbiosis" would be the appropriate word.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbiosis

But, yeah, when it goes on, it's hard to stay awake.......it's my "comfort zone".

Carbonman wrote his "Zen of the mask" post sometime back. He uses the UMFF, too.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=34519&p=295055&hilit=+Zen#p295055


Den (I think I hear my mask calling me)

[Rebecca R]

Maybe "symbiosis" would be the appropriate word.

Could be that too. Is the mask the anemone or the clownfish?

....
But, yeah, when it goes on, it's hard to stay awake.......it's my "comfort zone".

Carbonman wrote his "Zen of the mask" post sometime back. He uses the UMFF, too.

So that's the secret to his flat leak line.

Den (I think I hear my mask calling me)

Mine rejected the symbiotic process, so I took it back to the DME.

r

[plr66]

First, my humble apologies to Wulfman (Den) for my jokes about this in the past.

Well, IT'S ABOUT TIME!!!

Soooooo, I see you've finally discovered my "secret" for a good mask seal.
Den

Yup, Den--Good ole sticky Face-Grease!! It still weirds me out to leave that milky-appearing film on the cushion when I have been so diligent about returning it to be crystal-clear by wahing it every day. But hey. It truly works!! So as long as you can tell me that your face has not erupted into a giant zit over the past five years of this, then I shall continue with maybe just weekly washing of the cushion.

I think I am also of the opinion that FFM's probably do train our faces to accommodate the shape of the cushion over time. I have been messing with the UMFFM, the Liberty, and more recently (past 2-3 months) the Quattro. On my trip, I truly made friends with the Quattro by discovering that neglect & laziness optimized the fit. YAY!

[DoriC]

OK Den, you win! It would be interesting if all the converts to "dirty masks" wrote an update after a few nights. I'll post mine.

[bailachel]

Hmmnnn, I'll try it for a couple of nights. I hope it works for me too. It certainly would make life easier as long as it doesn't cause any problems.

[rosiefrosie]

I have to say that I find I get a better seal also when I don't wash my mask. My leak rate goes down when it's "dirty" and when I wash it my leak rate goes up. I do try to wash it at least once a week. I wash my face every night and the thing is that I am the only one who uses my mask, it has my germs/face oils etc on it and I have no problems. I've never even had a cold in the past 4.5 years that I have used c-pap. I am actually healthier now than I was pre-treatment with c-pap. But I have noticed that I have this one long hair growing out of the middle of my.............. LOL!

rosie

[Wulfman]

Yup, Den--Good ole sticky Face-Grease!! It still weirds me out to leave that milky-appearing film on the cushion when I have been so diligent about returning it to be crystal-clear by wahing it every day. But hey. It truly works!! So as long as you can tell me that your face has not erupted into a giant zit over the past five years of this, then I shall continue with maybe just weekly washing of the cushion.

I think I am also of the opinion that FFM's probably do train our faces to accommodate the shape of the cushion over time. I have been messing with the UMFFM, the Liberty, and more recently (past 2-3 months) the Quattro. On my trip, I truly made friends with the Quattro by discovering that neglect & laziness optimized the fit. YAY!

Nope. There ain't no zits on me.....there ain't no zits on me.......
(sung to the oft-seen TV commercial for a flea collar, substituting "zits" for "bugs")

I have no idea whether all that washing degrades the mask (which may be why the manufacturers want you to get a new one every so many months......so they can sell more of them) or not, but I just know that mine has nearly five years of use on it and my leak rates just keep getting lower and it's hard for me to tell that it's on my face.

As far as the "crystal-clear" seal.......when the lights are out and I'm sleeping, I have no idea what it looks like.
I think I actually get more skin irritation from an absolutely clean mask. Consequently, it doesn't feel "comfortable" (or "normal") until after I've worn it for a couple nights after I've washed it.

One thing I do when I'm washing my mask is to do a final soak in COLD water (after a wash in HOT and a rinse/soak or two in HOT). In my mind, it brings a little "springiness" back to the seal.

As Rosie said, it's MY germs or facial oils, which I wipe off before I put the mask on my relatively clean face.

If I was actually using a direct nasal interface (like pillows or prongs), it would definitely be a different situation. But, as it is, where I live in a low-humidity area, the heat is turned off during the night so the house is cool, I use "passover" humidity in my machine and there isn't much sweating or perspiration going on......there just isn't that much in the way of facial oils building up on the mask seal.

Again.......Your Mileage May Vary.


Den