Central apnea (awake?)

[aguaxp]

Hello, this a very important question for me.
All my life i feel that i notice that i keep my breath inside i dont know why , I think in many reasons : I probably have a neurologic desorder , or the depression (i have this sad mood since i was child) ,i have a very bad management of stress , maybe all of them.

It´s posible that the central apnea happens when you are awake?

Now I notice this "apnea" specially before a walk for more than 30 minutes .
Today I finally make the experiment: I use for 5 minutes the CPAP in 8mmH20 for 5 minutes or less without fall sleep , and my breath take the regular time, and i feel good again.

Every time i walk this time (30´) ,i have to lay down al least for 20 minutes to recuperate my breath , and my energy to get stand.

Anyone have any experience like this?

When i talk of this question to psychologist ,in my teraphy for depression, tells me that the breath its a automatic funtion, and my mind doesnt work very well when i have this ideas. But if its always a automatic funtion, the central apnea doesnt exist.

[Bons]

People normally pause in breathing throughout the day from time to time.

But after being told we have sleep apnea, sometimes some of us start to pay attention to our daytime breathing, and worrying about our breathing, and then we suddenly notice things we never noticed before, and worrying about things that are perfectly normal. And hearing things (but not EVERYTHING) about central apnea, some people really start to panic. I would guess that this is worse for those of us with anxiety issues. The more we notice the more we worry, and the more we worry the more we notice.

We can stop breathing during the day (and in our sleep) for many reasons other than central apnea. People tend to hold their breath when they are concentrating on something, when they use a burst of energy (like lifting something or exercising), if they are nervous or frightened (when my daughter was a toddler, whenever she was afraid she'd stop breathing (she didn't hold her breath, she'd just "forget" to breathe) until she fainted - as soon as she fainted her breathing would begin again).

When we are sleeping, we pause in breathing while we turn over, while we flip a pillow, and stuff like that. We breathe differently when awake than we do while sleeping, and when we make that brain transition we can show central apnea (perfectly normal).

If your psychiatrist and your doctor tell you that you are healthy, you can probably trust them.

[aguaxp]

Yes i understand that the breath stops for everybody , when you make a momentary effort (they trainer says "make the effort in the exhalation") , when you are frightened , but i stop breathing without external reason , i know.

I m very interested in the moment when i feel tired and without energy. The less energy , less inspirations, the less inspirations the more tireness. I feel like my brain dont tell the diafragm "move it" , so i think: are central apnea possible when you are awake, even if its dificult to valorate it?

I think i will need a complete test , like professional athletes , to see my brain and my breath while im walking . Any information about it?

[chunkyfrog]

Several years ago, I became aware of a habit I've had of closing my throat near my soft palate between inhale and exhale.
(kind of a semi-voluntary apnea while awake)
I also noticed if I avoided that action when I had hiccups, they would stop--every time.
I seemed to close my throat when stressed, so I try to avoid it now. (stress, especially)

[jnk]

Hello, this a very important question for me. . . . i stop breathing without external reason . . . Anyone have any experience like this?

When I first went on CPAP, my breathing changed a lot during the day too. I had very bad obstructive sleep apnea (OSA). So the good changes to my breathing at night changed how my body breathed during the day too. CPAP at night allowed my brain to fix how it decided to breathe during the day.

Yes, breathing is mostly automatic in that we don't have to think about it for it to happen. But the way we breathe during the day can still get changed in our brain because of the good changes to our breathing at night caused by the CPAP. That can be a very GOOD thing. It may be a sign that our CPAP is working very well and making good changes in our body. For me, that meant that my breathing paused often during the day when I went on CPAP. Those pauses happened several times a day for a few months then stopped happening.

BUT, if you get dizzy a lot during the day, that is always something to mention to a doctor, just to be sure everything is OK. For example, sometimes doctors have to change doses of our medicines to match the good changes in our bodies from the CPAP.

Is what I said clear, aguaxp? Or do I need to say it better?

[aguaxp]

jmk you say it clear ,and i m agreed with you. I get a better respiration from a night with CPAP all day long, but there s something more. Everybody is different like chunkifog, with a semi voluntary apnea. I have a hipo ventilation in a normal breath , but i think no for depression state, bad sinus and more.
I think the sleep is the more important, but the day its important too , to try to have a full life.

[jnk]

I believe that in time my body got used to breathing better at night and that now I am much more healthy during the day because of sleeping better at night.

Properly prescribed CPAP improves health, even though it can sometimes make us feel worse during the day at first. It can take time for our body to get used to better health, especially during the time that our body is healing. Sometimes something that will make us feel much better in the future can make us feel a little worse at first, temporarily. If that worries us, we should speak to our doctor about it. That is because better breathing at night can mean our medicine needs to be adjusted for us to feel better during the day so that our medicine matches the improvements in our breathing. And our doctor should say it is OK before we increase our exercise during a time of stress. An improvement in sleeping and breathing and overall health is good, but it is still a change and so is still a form of stress on our body, especially at first.

[BlackSpinner]

People breathe very erratically when awake. I used to do shiatsu massage, you are supposed to follow peoples breath when applying pressure. With some people that was a total bitch and I would start telling them when to breath in order to have some kind of rhythm happening. But once they fell asleep they were ok (assuming that they didn't have OSA, that was another fun ball game).

Every time i walk this time (30´) ,i have to lay down al least for 20 minutes to recuperate my breath , and my energy to get stand.

This needs to be discussed with a doctor, however.

[Todzo]

Yes i understand that the breath stops for everybody , when you make a momentary effort (they trainer says "make the effort in the exhalation") , when you are frightened , but i stop breathing without external reason , i know.

I m very interested in the moment when i feel tired and without energy. The less energy , less inspirations, the less inspirations the more tireness. I feel like my brain dont tell the diafragm "move it" , so i think: are central apnea possible when you are awake, even if its dificult to valorate it?

I think i will need a complete test , like professional athletes , to see my brain and my breath while im walking . Any information about it?

I think some time wearing a pulse oximeter would answer a lot of questions for you. If the SpO2 (blood oxygen saturation) reading is lower than 90% while you exercise then the drive to breath is really too low and you know what you are dealing with. If the SpO2 is near the max (most do not read above 99%) then it is likely you are breathing too much (hyperventilating). Either way, you do need to know.

May you find better health soon!

Todzo

[chearyshe]

I never focused on my irratic breathing during the day until.......I read this thread! I do do a lot of sighing, which means that I'm not getting a good supply of 02 in. My excess weight is also effecting my breathing. We all stop breathing before exerting a bit of strength, like picking up a piano or when concentrating on something . I suppose there IS a condition where centrals occur during waking hours, though, but I'm not a doctor so I don't really know for sure.

chearyshe!!

[aguaxp]

Thanks Todzo.
I see CMS-50F in http://www.pulseoxstore.com/Wrist-Oximeters.html
Only can it read in finger?.
Can read in another invisible part (chest ,...?) to walk more discreetly (Sleepyhead compatible if it s possible).
I would like very much to have one soon.

[wilsonintexas]

It has to be on a finger... There is a second slightly more expensive model, that is worn like a wrist watch, that has a cup that goes over the finger.... It is not as obvious, but is still there..... I do not know of it would work on a toe..... That would be interesting.

this is the fist site that haad a picture.....

http://www.pulseoximeter.org/cms50f.htm ... ontent=pla

I have this one, and it can load data into sleepyhead.....

I paid about 150 for mine...... I liked it becasue the finger portion was smaller... I was afraid that with all of the tossing and turning I would knock off the 50F model.... The 50F costs less, but has all of the sensor and recording parts on the finger. This makes the part on the finger is bigger.

[aguaxp]

You have the expensive or the cheaper?.
I would one like you describe it. Less size on the finger sensor (50I?)

CMS-50F
$140.00
CMS-50I
$200.00

But, can you comunicate wireless the wrist and the sensor. Obviously you can take the wrist module on the pocket if a wireless connection its posible.

[Julie]

No one seems to have said this to you, but... you don't get central apnea while awake, and only rarely when asleep.

You may have other neurological issues that affect your breathing, but for heaven's sake don't worry about central apnea!

I feel you probably do have some anxiety issues that are at least interfering with whatever else might or might not be responsible for your problems, and you do need to get treated, but unless your psychiatrist is a sleep specialist (and may be one for all I know), then I'd ask for a referral to a pulmonologist as well as a neurologist specializing in apnea. Tackle one problem at a time and be careful about spending your money on oximeters, etc. (though they have an important place in breathing issues) until you understand more of what's really going on with yourself.

Also, we are just patients like yourself, whatever our individual experiences might be, and we are all very different physically, emotionally and otherwise, so focus on yourself and don't try to match up this symptom or that symptom with someone else's and think you've found 'the' answer (unless it really turns out that you have after much medical testing).

Good luck!

[jnk]

. . . you don't get central apnea while awake . . .

Julie, as always, makes very good points. However, I think it may depend on one's definition of "central apnea," as far as whether it can happen while awake. It would, of course, not be sleep apnea, but it can sometimes be considered a "central apnea," at least by some, when the breathing mechanism pauses for one reason or another during wake:

. . . I assume . . . you mean can you experience apnea while awake, not asleep, in the daytime. Yes, you can. This is usually Central Apnea . . .

http://www.sleepdisorders.com/qa/can-yo ... during-day

An interesting discussion a while back: http://www.sleepnet.com/apnea101/messages/463.html

And from sleepydave over yonder a while back:

If you briefly hyperventilate, as seen in a yawn or a sigh, there is a brief period where you don't breathe, a compensatory pause, if you will, which I suppose you could call a central apnea . . .

But then right after that (I love it when he argues with himself so effectively), he says:

You won't find "awake apnea" in too many places because apnea is probably the wrong term to describe what is happening.

But anyway, his main point on the subject of breathing problems while awake, which I read as very much in harmony with Julie's excellent post above, seemed to be:

See your doctor. See your doctor. See your doctor. See your doctor.

http://www.apneasupport.org/about440.html

Just thought I saw a hair and couldn't resist splitting it. But maybe someone somewhere will find the discussion interesting, either way.