Bipap settings are mysterious

[Pesser]

I am on auto-bipap, this is what I tried:

IPAP is at 12; EPAP is at 9; SP is of course 3 Max (min behaves oddly in that I need to set the max before the min?). When the machine come on it window shows that the EPAP is 9 and the IPAP is 9.
When I set IPAP at 13 and EPAP at 9 with SP Max at 4; then I get the window right at 13/9.

Also at both scenarios above it seems that you must put the Max SP first. Can I set the IPAP at 25 with SP min at 4 and still get 13/9?

What I really want is EPAP at 9 with IPAP at 12; at least initially. (I would move to IPAP at 13 when I’m accustomed to it.) Then if needed I want both the IPAP and EPAP to move independently. By that I mean that if I need more IPAP I get it without changing the EPAP.

Can anyone help?

[Pesser]

It's as if the bipap doesn't like SP below 4. Could this be my problem? Manual doesn't mention this!

[palerider]

I am on auto-bipap, this is what I tried:

IPAP is at 12; EPAP is at 9; SP is of course 3 Max (min behaves oddly in that I need to set the max before the min?). When the machine come on it window shows that the EPAP is 9 and the IPAP is 9.
When I set IPAP at 13 and EPAP at 9 with SP Max at 4; then I get the window right at 13/9.

Also at both scenarios above it seems that you must put the Max SP first. Can I set the IPAP at 25 with SP min at 4 and still get 13/9?

What I really want is EPAP at 9 with IPAP at 12; at least initially. (I would move to IPAP at 13 when I’m accustomed to it.) Then if needed I want both the IPAP and EPAP to move independently. By that I mean that if I need more IPAP I get it without changing the EPAP.

Can anyone help?

I saw that comment on your equipment line! where's my pitchfork?

which bi-level machine are you using? your profile still says a 560 plain auto.

it makes sense that you have to set all the max and higher pressures first, because otherwise, you'd be trying to set the min higher than the max, and that would cause your bilevel machine to twist out of this dimension into an alternate one with different physics.... people have been known to lose fingertips or a hand when that happens!

to get what you want, you shoud set max ipap at whatever, 25, min epap at 9, maxps at 8, minps 3

with bi-level you are mainly setting epap and ps, and ipap is figured out on it's own. the minepap and maxipap settings constrain where the machine can roam, and the minps and maxps control the ipap settings while the machine roams around.

please ask more questions if there are still bits you don't understand

[Pesser]

people have been known to lose fingertips or a hand when that happens!

What fingers! I have none.

I'm going to try this. Thanks. So the maxps means it won't go higher than what I set it at...like 4. Do I even need a minimum? What sends me to the hell is the starting window say my epap is 9 and ipap is 9. I'll try your settings!

[Pesser]

Oh! I'm trying out a PR760!

[palerider]

people have been known to lose fingertips or a hand when that happens!

What fingers! I have none.

it might snip off part of your beak then, or wing, or foot, however you adjust the settings!

I'm going to try this. Thanks. So the maxps means it won't go higher than what I set it at...like 4. Do I even need a minimum? What sends me to the hell is the starting window say my epap is 9 and ipap is 9. I'll try your settings!

the minps is whatever you want the ps to be at least... so if you set minps to 0, your ipap and epap will start out equal.

if you want to start with epap 9 and ipap 12, then your minps needs to be 3. epap+ps=ipap, 9+3=12

[JDS74]

On a Respironics Auto BiPap machine setting EPAP to 9 and IPAP to 12 makes the machine into a straight Bi-level machine and effectively disables the auto function.

If you want the auto function to work, you must set the difference to greater than 3 and the MinPS to less than the difference.

So if you really want te effective range to be about 9-12, then try setting EPAP to 8 and IPAP to 14 and MinPS to 3.

That way the EPAP will float between 8 and 11 and IPAP will float between 11 and 14.

I don't have the clinicians manual for the 760 so the exact parameters may be a little different. My old AutoBiPap was a 750 and that's the way to set that model.

[palerider]

(confusing, bad advice deleted)
I don't have the clinicians manual for the 760 so the exact parameters may be a little different. My old AutoBiPap was a 750 and that's the way to set that model.

please don't confuse the issue by talking about things you don't know about.

you cannot set epap and ipap when in auto mode, (at least, not according to the manual).

conversely, you cannot set min epap, maxipap minps and maxps when in straight bipap mode.

[JDS74]

When I turned off my 750P machine 15 months ago, these were the settings.
Mode AutoB
Max IPAP 19.0
Min EPAP 15.5
Max PS 3.0
Flex Bi-Flex
Bi-Fex 3
Ramp Time 0.05
Ramp Start 10.0
Humidity 5
Auto On on
Auto Off off
Humidifier on
Blower Hours 587.7

Worked for me in auto mode although the range was narrow.

[palerider]

When I turned off my 750P machine 15 months ago, these were the settings.
Mode AutoB Max IPAP 19.0 Min EPAP 15.5 Max PS 3.0

and lo, there's no epap and ipap setting listed... so, please quit trying to confuse pesser by rambling about how you had things way back when.

[Pugsy]

The main difference between the 750 and the 760 machine (when in auto bilevel mode) is the ability to adjust the PS.

The 750 has a maximum PS and a hidden by default minimum PS (happens to be 2 cm)...so when PS is set to 3 then PS will roam around between 2 and 3. If set to 4 then PS roams around between 2 and 4....if set to 5 it roams around between 2 and 5....etc.
One of the disadvantages ...that hidden PS minimum default in auto mode. I prefer 4 cm PS and didn't really care for that 2 cm PS which is what you get when you first turn the machine on and it won't change until apnea events drive the machine to start changing the pressures.

The 760 has a minimum and maximum PS and yes..the maximum has to be greater than the minimum or you can't change the minimum.
If the maximum PS is 3...you can't make the minimum PS of 4 until maximum PS is also 4 (or more).
A range can be used or minimum can be set to equal maximum. Just depends on what feels good and what someone wants to do.

Maximum IPAP is just where the machine "can go" if needed. At the beginning of the night while awake we are going to see the EPAP minimum plus whatever PS minimum we set to equal IPAP.
If someone has issues with aerophagia then we want to limit IPAP maximum so it doesn't go causing aerophagia.

Example 760 in auto bilevel mode
Min EPAP 9
PS min 3 and PS max 4 (so a tight range for PS roaming)
IPAP max of 20
while awake and just starting the night I would see EPAP 9 and PS of 3 which would give me 12 IPAP...then once I fell asleep the apnea events would drive the machine to go wherever it thought it needed to go.
If it felt EPAP needed to go up then EPAP would push IPAP up.
If it felt IPAP needed to go up then IPAP would drag or pull EPAP up.
and the difference during the pushing or pulling would be 3 to 4 (my PS settings). Often I would see IPAP at 18 and that meant that EPAP was somewhere within the 14 to 15 range.
Aerophagia has never been an issue for me so these settings work well for me....if I had aerophagia issues I would have to probably compromise and not let IPAP go so far but often when using bilevel pressures we don't have the same issues with aerophagia at so and so pressure than we did when using cpap/apap.
Meaning if aerophagia was present at 13 cm on cpap/apap...we might get by using 13 or 14 IPAP or 15 IPAP and having EPAP 4 cm lower when using bilevel because of the time spent at EPAP lower pressures.