Hybrid saga, changes every night:

beneyw · Post by **beneyw** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 4:37 am

Here is my short assessment of the Hybrid. First night was hell with leaks from corner of mouth, nasal pillows were ok. Pressure normally in 6-8 range went to 10 with the leaks. Not able to download smart card until I see DME.

Night 2 lasted one hour: set the mask in place, aah, seems ok. Less than ONE minute passes, I am not moving a muscle (back sleeper) and the air begins the whistle from corner of mouth...I pull the straps tighter..re-position the head gear, more leaks but wait I get it to calm down again, no leaks, lay back, one minute later, same mouth leak. It is almost as if the mask is possessed. One minute it works with no apparent leaks and just as you seem to settle back, BAM, the leaks begin. It is enough to drive me nuts! After one hour of this aggravation I pulled the damn thing off, back to the 2 inch tape and my trusty Mirage Swift. By this time I am agitated enough to have to take a 2 mg. Lunesta and had 5 hours of great sleep.

It looks like you can add me to the Hybrid list of dehybridizers. Once again I learned the expensive way, "If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is." I will call the company and let them know the problem which will probably come with the advice.."give it more time."...Uh, uh...I know a lemon (for me anyway) when I see one unless they can suggest a better mouth interface and since I have to use the L size I doubt there are any options other than to the wall of disgraced masks.

Before you buy...BEWARE!

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CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): mirage, swift, DME, Nasal Pillows, Smart Card

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CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): mirage, swift, DME, Nasal Pillows, Smart Card

oldgearhead · Post by **oldgearhead** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 5:21 am

beneyw,

I've mentioned on this forum, the cheek-to-cheek curve of the Hybrid is
only friendly to those few who fit it, all others will need to make modifications. Those modifications are:

1) Cut off the chin-flap.

2) If the 'curve' is a bit too flat for your face, add 'C' shaped moleskin to the left and right corners.

3) Item (2), above, doesn't help enough, use some spacers to reduce the radius of the mouthpiece.

For me, the only option that always works, is to wear my upper partial plate to bed.

The quality of the Hybrid treatment has been worth all the effort, to me.

I just looked at a 2 month Encore Pro report. The month of June was with the ComfortLite 2 (nasal pillows), and July with the Hybrid. AHI and OSI are down a bit, and snore index and leak are up.

I am now having lots of difficulty switching back to the CL2. It just seems like I'm sucking air through a straw. For the last few nights, I have started with the CL2 but switched to the Hybrid before 2:00AM....

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 6:10 am

You did not mention if you tried all three sizes. Each cushion is shaped a little different on the face along with being larger or smaller in size. Sounds like you have the correct size pillow and the incorrect size cushion.
I have found the leak rate minimal yet my machine indicated good to poor. My clinic said that was normal for this mask. The mask has rather large co2 exchange holes. If you play with this mask a bit, chances are you will not only get it to fit but your AHI's will go down substantially. I have gotten the best sleep of my life using the Hybrid and although the first night was a challenge finding the correct size with so damn much to choose from [at least 9 configurations ?], it has been more than worth it, for me.
I found the chin guard to be helpful in the long run although I clipped it off on my smallest size, the size I would least likely wear and now I can wear that one if I want, but get the best all night fit with the large uncut cushion. Do not rule out moleskin for the little area that springs a leak. You can find it in the shoe pad or foot department where other Dr. Scholls products are found. I use moleskin for a better seal with my F&P Full Face. It works wonderfully, but with my AHI's down 5 points, the Hybrid has won me over.

mtsarpilot · Post by **mtsarpilot** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 6:20 am

I don't suppose the company would consider a money back guarantee ? That would enable more people to try it and they might actually be ahead in the long run. Is the manufacturer at all willing to work with buyers if they are not satisfied with the product?

I am considering buying one, but it is an expensive test if it does not work for the individual.

birdiebaby · Post by **birdiebaby** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 10:00 pm

I'm sorry to hear that you're having trouble with it. It took me several weeks of tinkering to get a good seal on mine. The plusses far outweighed the minuses for me, so I kept at it.

I had to modify the headgear a bit so that the mask would fit better. I used ponytail holders to pinch the top and bottom straps together. Give it a try...

krousseau · Post by **krousseau** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 11:03 pm

From reading post about masks here it doesn't seem like it is only time you have to give these babies-it's lots of experimentation.

new2 · Post by **new2** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 6:23 am

But, Oh, Is it worth it!
I get the best sleep of my life and unless you have worn this thing you'll have no idea what we're talking about when the people that use it tell you they never slept deeper or sounder and awake in the morning feeling like a kid again. My first week, the strap on my lower cheek left a mark that took an hour and a shower to get rid of. I went back to and old pillow mask for the night for a break, the Swift because the pillow shape is so close. There is no going back.Not at this time with nothing else like it on the market.
Once you start wearing this thing and tame it, there is no going back as far as the quality of sleep your going to get. My AHI's are zilch to .1 and I don't care or watch my stats, but something happens with this mask that I cannot get with the others.
Also, losing the poligrip and elastic bands and tape were reason alone. I kind of miss my soggy tapefest. Now THAT took some tweaking every night. Far more than any new pillow mask!

Issac forgot · Post by **Issac forgot** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 7:12 am

I have to post to this because he (or she) is correct. This mask stands alone as far as the quality of sleep I'm getting. I think the reason is because the therapy is so complete even if you spring a leak.
Looking for my next maching, I started reading the report on https://www.cpap.com that is available by clicking the on the left says "reports". It takes you to a page that if you scroll down, you can see how your machine (or mask) is doing in popularity. It looks like the Hybrid is selling hundreds or even thousands here, I don't know what the actual numbers are, but since the last week or two of July, CPAP.com shows it's sales for Hybrid to be over 40% of it's market. Most of those people must be happy with the mask or you would hear it.
How does it work with the VPAP, anyone know?

oldgearhead · Post by **oldgearhead** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 7:22 am

Please add my 'thumbs up' for the quality of sleep delivered by the Hybrid.

If you can make the thing fit, you will like it.

Another tip - If I run no heat on the Humidifier, the leaks are minimized. Therefore, I'm using passover humidification and some lip balm.

inacpapfog · Post by **inacpapfog** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 7:25 am

Definitely the best sleep ever since beginning cpap!
Not only is this interface delivering the needed pressurized air in a comfortable manner, but I think that, since I no longer need tape or chinstrap, my arousals and awakenings are far lower!

mister_hose · Post by **mister_hose** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 8:03 am

How does the Hybrid compare to the F&P HC431 full-face? I know it might be "apples and oranges" because the 431 isn't a pillow interface, but has anyone tried them both and can compare for me? Thanks.

I like the FF mask idea better than the idea of the Hybrid.... one seal to worry about, not essentially three like the Hybrid. Also the Hybrid's headgear doesn't look as stable as that for the 431, although someone said you can slap 431 headgear on the Hybrid without too much of a problem.

I like my 431, but my AHI's are around 3.0 and I'd like to see them be 1.5 or 1.0 or less. I'm new to CPAP, so I realize it might be that my pressure's a little too low, or a million other things, but I'm curious about how the Hybrid may be able to lower my AHI anyway.

Thanks guys!

tooly125 · Post by **tooly125** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 10:09 am

I have to say the amount of time I spent playing with this mask to get it to work was well worth it.

I now have a mask that I don't have to overtighten to keep from leaking like I had to do with the three other FF masks i own.

This next statement is pure speculation on my part. I feel that the position the chin flap is holding my jaw at might have something to do with my feeling like I am getting better sleep. This mask tends to pull my jaw forward and up where others pushed it back.

I have stopped mouth breathing.When I wake up my lips are dried stuck to each other.This is new to me as I have never felt like I could get enough air through my nose.With my other FF masks I needed to breath through my mouth but with this one because the flap keeps my mouth shut and I have air being pumped directly up my nose I sleep comfortably with my mouth shut.

Best of all the bridge of my nose is finally healed and back to normal

maskjkie · Post by **maskjkie** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 10:12 am

mister_hose wrote:How does the Hybrid compare to the F&P HC431 full-face? I know it might be "apples and oranges" because the 431 isn't a pillow interface, but has anyone tried them both and can compare for me? Thanks.

I like the FF mask idea better than the idea of the Hybrid.... one seal to worry about, not essentially three like the Hybrid. Also the Hybrid's headgear doesn't look as stable as that for the 431, although someone said you can slap 431 headgear on the Hybrid without too much of a problem.

I like my 431, but my AHI's are around 3.0 and I'd like to see them be 1.5 or 1.0 or less. I'm new to CPAP, so I realize it might be that my pressure's a little too low, or a million other things, but I'm curious about how the Hybrid may be able to lower my AHI anyway.

Thanks guys!

Mister_Hose,
I have been tracking AHI differences between the Hybrid and other FF masks, nasal pillows with chin strap/mouth tape etc. I did my own study on 5 patients in which I only asked the patient to change the mask (the Auto CPAP machine was the same). I also have been reading posts from users on this forum with a lot of interest.

The summary of my findings is that the Hybrid does give a lower AHI values than other masks (especially other FF masks like HC431 and UltraMirage) for majority of the patients. That does make sense because the Hybrid delivers pressure directly into the nares whereas the other FF masks distribute the air between inside the nares, over the cheeks and over the nares. That said, a couple of patients reported the opposite scenario on this forum and I don't know why. It could be that they were congested that night and it has nothing to do with the Hybrid (but that is pure conjecture on my part).

tooly125 · Post by **tooly125** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 11:16 am

mister_hose wrote:How does the Hybrid compare to the F&P HC431 full-face? I know it might be "apples and oranges" because the 431 isn't a pillow interface, but has anyone tried them both and can compare for me? Thanks.

Before the Hybrid the HC431 was my mask of choice a little moleskin on the bridge of my nose and I was good to go. I thought the 431 was a comfortable mask.I actually tried to sleep with it the other night To see if maybe I could get a mask rotation going but quickly switched back to the Hybrid

mister_hose wrote: Also the Hybrid's headgear doesn't look as stable as that for the 431, although someone said you can slap 431 headgear on the Hybrid without too much of a problem.

That someone probably would have been me.
If you do get a Hybrid I would highly recommend using the 431 headgear!

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 11:16 am

tooly125 wrote:This next statement is pure speculation on my part. I feel that the position the chin flap is holding my jaw at might have something to do with my feeling like I am getting better sleep. This mask tends to pull my jaw forward and up where others pushed it back.

Darn good speculation, I suspect. One thing I don't like about the HC431 is that it pushes my jaw back, which intuitively seems like it'd increase apneas.

The Hybrid actually pulls the jaw forward somehow? If intuition is right, then this should lower apneas.

Now you have me more interested in the Hybrid. However, I have permanent nasal congestion, varying between half a nostril being plugged and a whole one being plugged plus a little of the other, and everywhere inbetween those two extremes. Will the Hybrid still work for me? I assume it will because of the mouthpiece, but would the extra pressure in my nose, against the resistance of my congestion, somehow cause bad effects or ineffectiveness?

CONVENTIONAL nasal pillow masks are out of the question for me, but would the Hybrid work? Anyone else in my situation who can comment? Anyone else with permanent, varying amounts of nasal congestion, who usually has to mouthbreathe as a result, who has tried the Hybrid and can comment?

Thanks!