The Age old topic of "To Tape or not to Tape"

[Luthie2006]

Lately with the Ruby Pursom chin strap I have been having a lot of marks on my cheeks. I stuffed some soft tripled folded felt material on the sides of my cheeks and this was very painful on my ears on my pillow sleeping. The chin strap is 100 times bulkier and cumbersome than the Airfit P10 nasal pillows but yet I continue to open my mouth without a chin strap (which does the trick). I had been getting some great feedback on how people tape their mouths closed.
I tried taping my mouth closed in the mirror and tried to cough. I could not cough and it was a horrible suffocating feeling. I mentioned to Pugsy what she though about 2 vertical tapes going down to my mouth to my chin (leaving the center of my mouth opened a little bit) and she thought it was a great idea. I tried it and it worked well. I could cough; the tape seemed to stick very well with my body heat, and no dry mouth this morning. Thank you for all your suggestions.

[Julie]

Try a proper FF mask - while some people can't 'see' them, lots of us are very happy with them and don't worry about leaks, tape, surgery or other fixes designed to go all around the problem instead of using the obvious.

[chunkyfrog]

After unsuccessfully trying several different full face masks, I have gone with nasal or nasal pillow masks.
Since chinstraps are excruciatingly painful for me, that was not an option.
I found a MINIMAL application of tape (like my homemade chin up strips) to be effective enough.
Eventually, my leak rates without tape have reached low enough levels that I decided to forgo the tape as well.
Did my yap finally learn to stifle? Maybe.
In any case, it is my opinion that no hard and fast rules are universal--just do what works,
and try new stuff until you feel it is right.

[Pugsy]

Sometimes using a full face mask creates more problems than it fixes for some people and taping is the lesser of 2 problems.

What full face mask would those of you who would think full face masks are the greatest thing since sliced bread... suggest I use?...and remember that any strap that rests on or near my cervical spine will create neck pain and headaches....and pretty much any mask pressure on the nasal bridge area of my nose causes immediate congestion (immediately relieved when the pressure is removed).
So look at all the masks available out there and there's not many full face masks that don't use lower straps or pressure on the nose.
The Oracle...would fit the bill but my nose is just fine and I would have a really hard time not breathing through my nose.
They Hybrid...maybe but it uses that lower back strap that rests near the base of the skull.
The total face covering mask...it also uses that lower back strap and it's a real bitch to get it sealed.

Let's see my options...tape my lips and sleep great and feel decent
or fight nasal issues or neck pain all night with crappy sleep which will for sure impact how I feel the next day. Those are my choices and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know which way I prefer to go.
Fortunately I don't need to tape anymore but if I did ...I would still prefer to tape over the alternatives.

If someone knows of a full face mask that doesn't put pressure on my nose and doesn't use a lower strap in the back near the spine...please point me to it. I can't find one that would fulfill those needs.
And way back when I was first starting cpap therapy I did try on every full face mask that the DME had (and he had a sizable inventory) because I erroneously thought I was a serious mouth breather and needed a full face mask....and every one of them caused issues with my neck or my nose and they weren't too tight either.

I know it may come as a big surprise to those of you who think that a proper full face mask will fix everyone's issues...it won't. Some of us do have very valid reasons for not wanting to go down the full face mask road beyond we simply don't want to...but to be honest "don't want to" is a good enough reason for me. My job is to try to help someone be happy with what they choose to use or do...not get them to change what they want to use to something they don't really want to use unless there is simply no other way and all other options have been exhausted.

[Luthie2006]

Thanks Pugsy: I appreciate the support. Actually I was also told that in the very beginning at the DME "That a "nasal pillow" mask would work for me now, but eventually "as I got older" that I would have to go to a full-face mask." I don't understand this especially since my AHI without treatment is only a 9. I have heard for a lot of people not liking full-face masks also because of leaks.
So I thank you for your support. No full face mask for me. And the tape (at least last night) going vertically seemed to work for me at keeping my mouth closed as best as possible.

[Pugsy]

I was also told that in the very beginning at the DME "That a "nasal pillow" mask would work for me now, but eventually "as I got older" that I would have to go to a full-face mask."

Never ceases to amaze me the old wives tales that these DME people come up with and probably actually believe all that crap. Older has nothing to do with nasal pillow use or success...AHI has nothing to do with it...pressures used has nothing to do with it. I do think that their archaic way of thinking sure isn't doing anyone any favors...telling someone they will fail sure increases the odds of failure. If all a person looks for are negatives then guess what they will find..big surprise...a bucketful of negatives. Yeah, sometimes the positives are harder to spot but if people never know to look for them then they sure aren't going to find them.
I also don't hold to telling everyone that they will feel like a totally new person and setting up false hopes.
I prefer just the plain cold facts of life approach that doesn't make someone feel like a failure if they don't get that miracle and they think that "cpap isn't working because I didn't get the miracle".

Realistic expectations with a good dose of reality is what I prefer. May not be pretty but it is at least truthful.

I need to get down off my soapbox now...I have chores to attend to.

I am glad that the vertical taping method seems to suit your needs. Don't know why I didn't think to try it long ago when I was doing the tape thing other than I just never saw it suggested and since I didn't have any issues with the horizontal method I didn't investigate further.

You know your body better than anyone else and you know what will suit your needs the best...and we all have different needs and preferences and limits to what we will or won't do. It is just human nature.
If you had wanted help finding a full face mask...then I would have tried to help you find one that suited your needs.
But instead you wanted to try to find an alternate way to keeps the lips shut....so I tried to come up with something to help you explore those options.

We never got to the Polygrip strip suggestion... I tried that one too...that stuff is nasty tasting and leaves a mess on the lips but surprisingly it does a decent job holding the lips closed and not cementing shut. You wouldn't have liked it anyway...it wouldn't have stopped the coughing and the coughing would totally have blown the seal.

[chunkyfrog]

YOU are the patient. It is up to you, and you alone, what mask to wear.

[Luthie2006]

Thanks Pugsy and Chunky Frog: What is so funny about the DME I went to who told me to "get used to the nasal pillows" because as I age, I will need a full face mask, I brought a male friend with and the DME asked him if he goes to the bathroom in the middle of the night." My friend said one time a night, and the DME said to me, "I wouldn't be surprised if you have sleep apnea too." (which he does not have, LOL)

[poppi2]

Well, CPaP therapy has eliminated all of my nighttime bathroom breaks. Just one break a night would have been great.

[skullduggery]

I am intrigued by this and would certainly like to explore pillows as an alternative. I am currently using the FitLife mask due to numerous failures with FFM's. I was told I was a mouth breather after my sleep report and I would have to use a FFM. What kind of tape is used. I am only 6 months in to CPAP so am still finding my feet so to speak.

[Uncle Flapp]

Lately with the Ruby Pursom chin strap I have been having a lot of marks on my cheeks. I stuffed some soft tripled folded felt material on the sides of my cheeks and this was very painful on my ears on my pillow sleeping.

I'm new to the P10 and started using an Ace bandage as a chin strap while awaiting delivery of the Ruby. Went a couple nights without either and I seem to be doing fine without taping but, to your point, I found the Ruby extremely uncomfortable. I'm going back to the Ace bandage if my jaw starts to drop. Far more comfortable.

- Flappy

[sleepydc]

For my FFM (full face mask) use I found it started working a whole lot better when I started using tape. Some people end up using chin straps with FFM's. I tried and disliked chin straps. For me, the "partial tape method" solves most of the issues with "mouth breathing" and "draw drop," which interrrupts the seal of a FFM (full face mask) because my face changes shape when that occurs and the seal is broken. At this point, I hardly notice it's there -- and (in combination with some of the techniques described below) it promotes nasal breathing, which seems to be a pretty good thing while sleeping, helps prevent leaks that wake me up, helps prevent "chipmunk" cheeks, and helps prevent drymouth. It's not for everyone, but here's what I'd suggest:

I have now been using surgical tape for about a year now, and it has worked wonders and works very well for me. I use silk surgical type tape you can get off of Amazon, 2" wide. There's also a 1" wide version. If you gently pull it off in the morning, there's usually no problem. Just type something like "3M-Durapore-Silk-Tape 2 inches x 10 yards - box of 6" or the like on the Amazon site. For me, it works very well with a full face mask (FFM) -- the FFM helps prevent pressure problems if my jaw does open slightly, and the tape substantially prevents my jaw from dropping and also thereby keeps my face largely in the same "position" as I fall asleep (thereby avoiding the inevitable leaks that can occur when your facial shape changes from the point of initial placement/tightening of the mask). .

I was actually worried about not being able to breath with the tape if there was a shut-down. I've found that this set-up, however, offers very few worries:

For the silk tape, apply a 2inch wide strip vertically from a spot just above your upper lip (the indentation just below your nose) down to just under your chin (with your lips closed and your jaw in a comfortable place). As you bring the tape and press it underneath your chin, "fold" the edge back on itself (maybe a 1/2 inch or so) so that the edge hangs a bit from your chin -- makes for easier removal in case of emergency. Because it's only 2 inches wide and vertically placed, your entire mouth is actually not taped -- you can, in a pinch, breath around the edges -- and the silk tape itself I've found by accident (in opening my mouth with it being placed) will also let a little air in if you open your mouth forcefully. In short, it doesn't take too much force to maneuver or breath around the silk tape, but at the same time the tape seems to mostly keep my jaw from dropping when I relax and fall asleep, which is the whole point. [The setup also seems to work best when combined with the technique, described elsewhere on this site, of learning to relax with the tip of your tongue against the roof of your mouth as your mouth is closed, which "seals" the mouth from the nasal passage and helps prevent dry mouth]. (In placing the tape, I've also found it helpful to focus on firming the contact with the skin at the point below the nose and under the chin more than the lips, which seems to leave a little area of the lip region feeling less taped, if that makes sense). [To remove with less "tear", try pulling up vertically from underneath the chin till you reach your lip, then pull across "horizontally" for the remainder.]

The usual caveats about making up your own mind about this, considering safety issues, etc. apply, of course. But frankly, I'm surprised more people don't do this.