Review of New F&P 432 FF Mask & Sizing Guide

DreamStalker · Post by **DreamStalker** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 8:57 am

Thanks ... the first thing I checked with the Hybrid was to make certain I could breathe with my mouth (which I could even without removing chin flap) and that is one of the reasons I continue to try to make it work. In addition, there are a lot of fitting combinations to try before I give up on it and I do seem to get good results with it ... just not consistent like with my Breeze and Swift.

Thanks again,

- r

rested gal · Post by **rested gal** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 9:13 am

grayson, I always enjoy reading your posts. Not only because of the clear descriptions you give us of your experience with this equipment, but also because you write so well.

Thanks very much for your review of the 432 FF mask and your comments about the SomnoPlus nasal mask -- the latter being a mask I had tried and found just as quiet as you did. The 432 FF is one I've been thinking about trying. The 431 FF was too leaky on me. Perhaps the changes you described in the 432 will do the trick.

For people considering other F&P masks, here are a couple of additional interesting posts by grayson:

Sep 29, 2006 subject: FP Aclaim 2 Nasal Mask Review Compared to Swift

Sep 28, 2006 subject: My Experience with FP HC405 Nasal Mask Compared to Swift

grayson · Post by **grayson** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 9:26 am

Rested Gal,

Many thanks for your kind words. In my brief tenure here at the forum I can honestly say that I've learned more from you in a day than I could have learned on my own in year!

I've received so much from all of you that it's only right that I contribute what I can. The CPAP experience can be a lonely one especially for people who live alone or when only one spouse in a household needs the therapy. As you know, it's impossible for someone who has never needed CPAP to truly understand what the experience is like, how frustrating it can be, and just how desperate we can sometimes feel.

There is no better therapy than for us to share our success and failure with each other. I'm so grateful to have all of you as a resource. My thanks to you as well!

Grayson

jasper · Post by **jasper** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 9:30 am

Great thread Grayson, thank you. Your questions and concerns are a mirror image of mine. Currently have an Activa, but mouth breathe in the latter part of the night. Tried taping, and it works, but this isn't the solution I'm looking for. I have a call in for my DME to try out the 432 ASAP, also looking forward to having a method of staying on CPAP if congested. I was concerned about fit since one of the other threads mentioned using a medium 431, but a large 432. Thanks for the tip on the fitting guide.

frapilu · Post by **frapilu** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 9:58 am

Hi all,

I'm somewhat jealous as to how well you guys are doing with the HC432 because I'm not doing so well. I'm so disappointed.

I first posted in the other HC432 message:
viewtopic.php?t=14117&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15

and was quite encouraged by everything I had read. I received it on trial Friday and used it until I finally gave up at 4 am last night to switch back to my HC405. I'll admit that I've never used a full face mask before so the blowing of air on my face is a totally different feeling. I think I could get used to it but every time I turn on my back, the bottom sides of the mask start "farting" and the noise and weird rippling on my face wake me up. I also seem to get little streams of air on my face so that it feels like it's a leak but coming in instead of leaking out (if that makes any sense at all). I'll use my HC405 again tonight because I need to get some sleep and then I'll call my DME to see if she has any suggestions. I would really like to get used to this thing so that I can have a FF mask for the frequent times when I have nasal congestion.

But I need to be able to sleep ...

France

grayson · Post by **grayson** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 10:18 am

France,

I'm sorry to hear about your difficulties with your new mask. With regard to leaks there are only two user interventions that I know of. First, make certain that your mask is aligned on your face properly and that your strap adjustment is even thereby putting pressure on both sides of the mask evenly.

Take a close look at your headgear and make certain that this is so. A leak occurring on one side of the mask only may be an indication of your mask being misaligned on your face or your straps exerting unequal tension.

The other intervention you might try is, of course, is to tighten your straps while lying on your back. I try to tighten them only enough to stop any leaks. No more and no less.

One final trick I use with the FP 432, if I happen to have a leak that indicates that I put it on in a lopsided manner, is that I turn my CPAP machine off, place the mask on my face as evenly as I can, then turn the CPAP machine back on. I have found that the initial surge of air into the mask with the mask properly placed creates the best seal. At least this is so in my experience.

I have to tell you that I have literally read every single page of this forum one at a time. If one thing is clear to me it is that our facial dimensions vary so greatly that no single mask could possibly fit us all comfortably and without leaks. It must be quite a challenge to design one of these!

I started my quest to find the perfect mask only after putting it off for a good while suspecting that it would be a costly search. It was. No surprise there. I hope your DME or your own experimentation gets the 432 working for you and that your investment in time and money won't be lost.

Best of luck to you.

Grayson

Alisha · Post by **Alisha** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 10:50 am

France, re your problem: "I think I could get used to it but every time I turn on my back, the bottom sides of the mask start "farting" and the noise and weird rippling on my face wake me up. I also seem to get little streams of air on my face so that it feels like it's a leak but coming in instead of leaking out (if that makes any sense at all)."

The few times this has happened with my 432, I gently "retucked" the mask under my chin then pushed it up slightly to make the chin fit more snug. The chin suction returned and the nose bridge suction remained. I was then able to go back to sleep pretty quickly, since the adjustment had taken only a few seconds. If your mask straps are aligned evenly and are tight enough, you might want to try this "retucking" when you get the leaks and noise you described.

frapilu · Post by **frapilu** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 11:20 am

Alisha,

I'm glad that I'm not the only one who has had this. Each time it happened, I'd left the mask off my face to get the suction back into it then repositioned it. I think I've tried "retucking" it under my chin but I'm not sure because I tried so many things (tightening the straps, etc).

Grayson,

Yes, we definitely all have different faces so it makes sense no one mask is perfect for everyone. I'll try that idea of putting the mask on then turning on the CPAP. I usually breathe in to turn on the CPAP but I'm finding that this doesn't seem to work very well with a FF so I'll have to get used to pressing the ON button.

Thanks
France

frapilu · Post by **frapilu** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 11:07 am

Well, HC432 is still a problem for me. My DME RT called me back today and said that yes, she's had other people having this problem with it. The only "fix" is to really tighten the mask but then that causes other problems.

She has suggested that I try the Ultra Mirage Full Face, which she says is by far their highest FF mask seller. So, I'm going tomorrow at 5 pm to pick one up.

Sigh, nothing is ever easy.

France

grayson · Post by **grayson** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 12:17 pm

France,

I'm sorry to hear that you are not able to use your F&P 432. I also purchased a ResMed FF mask right before purchasing my F&P 432. I've found every ResMed product I've used to be of quality construction. The Ultra Mirage II FF mask is no exception.

My experience with the ResMed FF mask was that, since it lacks the large grey inner cushion of the F&P 432, wearing it on the tight side to minimize leakage was very uncomfortable. I experimented extensively with tightening/loosening the headgear but it leaked terribly for me regardless of the adjustment. The more I tightened it the more I could feel the impression of the hard plastic of the mask against my face and the more uncomfortable it became.

However, that being said I can't help but believe that if your facial features are better suited for the ResMed than mine are you'll be able to wear it in a comfortable manner. I believe it's the largest selling FF Mask on Cpap.com. Trying the ResMed next is no doubt the wisest choice you could make.

Getting into bed knowing that you'll have a fight on your hands to control your mask leakage makes you wonder why you bother to go to bed at all. I certainly hope this mask works for you and that you'll finally be able to get some rest.

Best to you.

Grayson

frapilu · Post by **frapilu** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 1:05 pm

Thanks Grayson. I understand that it's hard, if not impossible to make a mask that fits all but I really wish I had a face that fit something Let's hope the UMFF is that. I've told the RT that I'll trial the UMFF but that I'll also keep trialling the HC432 to see if I can find a way to make it fit if the UMFF doesn't work.

We'll see.

France

frapilu · Post by **frapilu** » Thu Oct 19, 2006 6:15 pm

Well, I've got the UMFF and it felt very good in the DME RT's office but then again, the HC432 felt good too. I'll be trying it tonight and we'll see how it goes. I've still got the HC432 just in case. I go back Nov 2 (since my schedule is too crazy next week to go back) to decide & buy.

The price is horrendous, mind you. The UMFF is $305 CAD and the HC432 is $275 CAD. They really gouge us here but I guess it's the price I pay for being able to call up the DME and try all kinds of masks. If I ordered a mask online, I believe I'd be stuck with it, wouldn't I?

France

grayson · Post by **grayson** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 7:43 am

France,

If you purchase the mask online from Cpap.com you are able to purchase return insurance. I just checked Cpap.com for you and the return insurance on a ResMed Ultra Mirage FF Mask is $68.25.

Cpap.com accepts the return of unopened items and will credit the customer the purchase price minus 15% restocking. Shipping costs are not refundable. However, I believe that my ResMed FF Mask was packaged in a sealed plastic bag. I don't see any way around opening it to try it on and check for fit.

Without the return insurance the mask is yours forever once you purchase it. The insurance probably covers Cpap.com's cost as I doubt they would be able to resell the mask once opened and used.

Grayson

frapilu · Post by **frapilu** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 11:07 am

Thanks Grayson. At first shot, the UMFF didn't work well -- I tolerated it 1/2 hr before ripping it off and replacing it by my HC405. I think it's too big. I use an HC405 - petite. For the HC432, the small fit perfectly. No idea why she decided that for the UMFF, I should have a medium. She explained that it's because the small is tiny. I should have insisted to at least try it. The medium seemed ok there but she had me connected to a low pressure of 8. Once I got home and went to bed, my machine blasts it with a pressure of 13. Leaks sprung up all over the place! I tightened as much as possible without hurting myself but that soft plastic stuff that fills up with air to cushion the mask kept pressing into my eyes. I kept trying to push the mask down to get it out of my eyes but then it would be tettering on the edge of my chin. I have to learn to be more assertive, sigh.

I've printed up cpap.com's sizing guide and I'll check it out this weekend to see what it says.

France

rested gal · Post by **rested gal** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 11:51 am

frapilu wrote:I use an HC405 - petite. For the HC432, the small fit perfectly. No idea why she decided that for the UMFF, I should have a medium. She explained that it's because the small is tiny.

I'm astonished that the DME would describe the Ultra Mirage FF Small size as "tiny". I normally can use either small or a medium in most nasal masks. I've used several different brands of FF masks in several different sizes. The "Small" UMFF is rather large on my face... the "small" is not a "tiny" mask by any stretch of the imagination. The UMFF "medium" is unusably large on my face.

Back before my taping days, I used full face masks exclusively for about half a year. The Respironics ComfortFull FF definitely felt smaller in every interior dimension than the Ultra Mirage FF. When I switched after using the ComfortFull for about 4 months, the UMFF was much "roomier" feeling on my face. Both were size "Small."

I've not had to use FF masks for years now, other than trying some of them. I've not tried the ComfortFull 2, which supposedly is an improved version. Perhaps that might be a good one for you to try next...in a small, of course. I do clearly remember that the ComfortFull "Small" was a good bit smaller on my face than the UltraMirage FF "Small" was, even though I liked the UMFF better.

Wonder if the DME even had a small UMFF in stock or was simply giving you the "smallest" size she happened to have on hand? Along with a sales pitch type of excuse.

Review of New F&P 432 FF Mask & Sizing Guide

Thank You!

France - Leaks

432 Problem

Online Mask Purchase