Trying Out An F20 For the First Time

I've been using an Airfit N20 and decided to get an F20 for those times when I will have nasal congestion, etc. Also, my leak rate from the N20 has been mid-high, mostly due to mouth breathing.

The first thing I noticed with the F20 is the absence of the 12 in. pad-to-heater hose extension that is present on the N20. This extension was an important part of my hose management setup, but I think I can adjust to it by lowering my overhead wall hook to compensate for the loss of that highly flexible tubing. The next thing I noticed was the feeling of smothering. There is a noticeable difference in the exhaust from the F20 as compared to the N20. It feels like it's much less. I adjusted my Airsense 10 settings to full face and raised my minimum pressure to equal my maximum pressure which is 9.

Overall, I like the feel of the N20 and hope I can adjust to the sensation of lack of air and re-breathing CO2. Are there any suggestions that might help when transitioning from an N20 to an F20?

thanks

Did you change the mask setting on your machine? My F20 feels like its blasting out a huge amount of bleed air, when I compare it to both a P10 and a Eson 2 nasal mask.

TASmart wrote:Did you change the mask setting on your machine? My F20 feels like its blasting out a huge amount of bleed air, when I compare it to both a P10 and a Eson 2 nasal mask.

Yes, I changed the setting to "full face" There's a lot of air coming into the mask but not a lot of exhaust, thus the feeling of smothering.

Comfortably Numb wrote:

TASmart wrote:Did you change the mask setting on your machine? My F20 feels like its blasting out a huge amount of bleed air, when I compare it to both a P10 and a Eson 2 nasal mask.

Yes, I changed the setting to "full face" There's a lot of air coming into the mask but not a lot of exhaust, thus the feeling of smothering.

Are you using EPR?

My wife and I both use the F20 and run the hose up over the headboard. We use the Sleepweaver Feather Weight Tube: https://www.cpap.com/productpage/circad ... -tube.html

We use hose covers and have purchased short hose covers from padacheek to match our regular hose covers. My wife didn't like the feel of the short hose when it would brush her face, so I ordered the short hose covers.

LSAT wrote:

Comfortably Numb wrote:

TASmart wrote:Did you change the mask setting on your machine? My F20 feels like its blasting out a huge amount of bleed air, when I compare it to both a P10 and a Eson 2 nasal mask.

Yes, I changed the setting to "full face" There's a lot of air coming into the mask but not a lot of exhaust, thus the feeling of smothering.

Are you using EPR?

Yes. EPR is on "Full Time" at "Level 2" whatever that means.

Okie bipap wrote:My wife and I both use the F20 and run the hose up over the headboard. We use the Sleepweaver Feather Weight Tube: https://www.cpap.com/productpage/circad ... -tube.html

We use hose covers and have purchased short hose covers from padacheek to match our regular hose covers. My wife didn't like the feel of the short hose when it would brush her face, so I ordered the short hose covers.

Thanks for that recommendation! I called cpap.com today (where I purchased the F20) and asked for a recommendation for a flexible extension similar to the one on the N20. They told me that their extensions are not intended to go on the mask side of things but are meant to go "near the humidifier." They said I might be introducing leaks into the system if I attached an extension directly to the mask. They also said I might need some type of additional adapter to join the extension to the hose thereby introducing another potential leak. I'm glad to know that you and your wife are using this extension on your F20's without a problem. I'll place my order tomorrow.

Comfortably Numb wrote:

TASmart wrote:Did you change the mask setting on your machine? My F20 feels like its blasting out a huge amount of bleed air, when I compare it to both a P10 and a Eson 2 nasal mask.

Yes, I changed the setting to "full face" There's a lot of air coming into the mask but not a lot of exhaust, thus the feeling of smothering.

if that were true, you'd explode. there's no more air going into the mask than going out.

the *fact* is, the machine has a pressure sensor right at the outlet, it measures pressure typically in centimeters of water. ie, how much pressure it takes to push down that many centimeters of water. you can feel *exactly* how much pressure that is by sticking a straw in a glass of water, and blowing. ten centimeters is slightly over 4 inchs. so, stick a straw 4 inches in a glass of water, and blow.. if you got bubbles to come out, you've just blown harder than 10cm/h2o pressure.

now, as to that rush of air, like I said, the machine is set to create a specific pressure. pressure is the result of resistance to flow. when there's no resistance (or very little) like when your mask is off... the machine creates MORE flow, to try and get pressure. but there's no resistance, so the air just blows out, so the machine tries harder, spinning the fan faster, and faster, till it's at full speed, trying to make some pressure, pushing against nothing....
so you get a huge amount of flow with no pressure. it's like turning on the garden hose and letting all the water run out, it doesn't go very far, big flow, low pressure, but if you put your thumb over the end, the flow goes way down but the pressure goes up, and the water shoots a much longer distance.

as soon as you put your mask on, the machine senses the the increasing pressure, and slows the fan down. (it checks maybe a hundred times a second, maybe more, depending on the model.) it slows the fan down till there's only that very gentle 10cm/h2o of pressure, that you blew bubbles with. and none of it is blowing up your nose... where would it go? if it was actually blowing up your nose, you'd eventually explode! no, the air, and that gentle pressure, is just sitting there, until you do what you normally do, until you inhale, THEN air goes up your nose, into your lungs, giving you the oxygen you need to live. then you exhale and the air comes back out your nose, against that tiny bit of pressure... and flows out the vent holes in the mask.

Palerider, I totally agree with your explanation from a scientific standpoint. I'm simply describing a "feeling" and comparing one Resmed mask to another. There is a significant stream of air exiting my N20 but barely a trickle exiting the F20. It could be that increasing my EPR level from 2 to 3 might make me more comfortable and reduce the feeling of a lack of air. I'm just getting started with this mask. I recall having similar feelings when I first switched to the N20 and it has become my favorite. More to follow. thanks

Comfortably Numb wrote:Palerider, I totally agree with your explanation from a scientific standpoint. I'm simply describing a "feeling" and comparing one Resmed mask to another. There is a significant stream of air exiting my N20 but barely a trickle exiting the F20. It could be that increasing my EPR level from 2 to 3 might make me more comfortable and reduce the feeling of a lack of air. I'm just getting started with this mask. I recall having similar feelings when I first switched to the N20 and it has become my favorite. More to follow. thanks

there's just as much air venting out of the F20 as the N20, you're being misled because the F20 has a diffused vent, and the N20 doesn't, which makes it seem like the N20 is venting more air, when it reality, it's about the same amount, it's just all going in one direction on the N20.

I had a pretty good first night with the F20. I think that a combination removing the ramp period and adjusting my EPR to 3 took away all feelings of breathlessness. I had 0.7 events and 0 major leaks, as compared to 7.6% major leaks during my last night with the N20, and my maximum pressure was under 9 (which is my set point) 95% of the time. Upon examining and wiping the mask after first removing it, I noticed a small area of moisture that remains trapped immediately above the point at which the swivel attaches. The moisture remains after one hour and shows no signs of going away. There must be a double layer at that point with small leakage into the plastic. Is this normal with masks of this type?

You may have a little moisture between the mask cushion and the mask frame.

Okie bipap wrote:You may have a little moisture between the mask cushion and the mask frame.

Thanks, it seems to have disappeared for now. I ordered the hose extension you recommended. Were you able to directly adapt one end to the mask swivel and the other end to the heated hose without any additional fittings? I really appreciate your recommendation. Sounds like we have identical hose management setups as well as masks.

The short hose has a small end and a large end. The small end goes into the regular hose just like your mask normally does. The large end connects to the mask just as your regular hose does. The only difference is the short hose ends are rigid instead of flexible.