AC converter for car question

I have AC converter for car question.

These are the specs for the converter I have.

Is it ok to run it with an Respironics M Series Auto.

I know not to run it with the humidifier, because the need for a pure sine wave needed for the humidifier.

How much power does my Respironics draw either in auto mode 8-13 or CPAP 10? In Watts and amps.

Am I right to assume that with the converter the APAP is using AC power and not DC power from the battery?


150 Watt SmartAC Inverter from Wagan


Continuous Use 150W
Peak Surge Power 450W
AC Voltage Output 110V
Optimum Efficiency 90.00%
No Load Current Draw 0.15A
Input Voltage Range 10V to 15V
Low Battery Alarm --
Auto Low Battery Shutdown Yes (10V)
Cooling Fan Yes
AC Receptacles Single
Weight Approx.
450 g
Dimensions LxWxH (in.) 5 x 2.75 x 1.75
UPC 084367- 022219

* All Power Inverters have a Modified Sine Wave waveform (unless otherwise indicated), Overload Protection, Input Short-circuit Protection.

There's an optional piece of Respironics gear that allows you to power your M-Series without use of an inverter. Evidently the M-Series runs on 12V DC
and you can avoid the inefficient nature of the inverter. Hook the battery clips directly to the automotive battery......and the other end plugs into the M-Series. Don't change 12V DC to 110V AC with an inverter....only to have the M-Series power supply change it back to 12V DC again. There's too much power wasted going that way.

Gerald

Just go down to RadioShack and get a cigarette lighter 12VDC adapter, they will match the end with your machine, just get the polarity right.

Think I paid $9.95 for it and it came with the plug needed (you flip it for correct polarity). This one is $12.49 (been a while since I bought mine).

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index ... age=family



The M series machine will run directly off the 12volts and use much less battery power than using an inverter. You cannot use the inverter with the humidifier anyway. Inverters are very inefficient.

You only need an inverter if you have a Resmad machine, all the Remstars and P&B 420x machines run directly off of 12VDC power.

If you use an inverter with a ResMed machine it has to be a $pecial true sine wave inverter.

Fisher & Paykel CPAP machines and humidifiers can use standard modified sine wave inverters (and UPS's).

Bearded_One wrote:If you use an inverter with a ResMed machine it has to be a $pecial true sine wave inverter.

The Resmed S8 units will operate quite satisfactorily of "modified sine wave" type inverters, which are quite common now a days and in no way "$pecial".

They don't like "square wave" converters much, but as far as I'm aware neither do any of the other brands.

Cheers,

Bill

Anonymous wrote:Is it ok to run it with an Respironics M Series Auto.

While I can't answer your specific questions as far as your particular xPAP is concerned, the thing you need to be aware of is that car batteries are not really designed for running moderate energy drain devices for long periods of time. If you intend to use your xPAP machine overnight with power from your car battery, make sure you do have enough power left to actually start the vehicle in the morning!

If you have a off-road vehicle with a standby battery, then you should have no problems, but if its basically an on-road/urban use vehicle with a single battery, you need to take care.

Cheers,

Bill

Snoredog wrote:Inverters are very inefficient.

Most modern electronic inverters have typical energy efficency ratings of at least 85%, and often higher. The OP's inverter has an efficency rating of 90%

Cheers,

Bill

Maybe this info will help,

Just some info for the folks seeking info to survive when the power goes out. When we have to rely on electrical devices to survive, we soon realize that what we always expect to be there seems to let us down at critical times. Before cpap it didnt seem to be all that important, so with that thought here is some info.

Unitteruptable Power Supplies, inside that box sits an inverter, ac switching, battery charger and a battery. The inverter in the lower price units are generally a MODIFIED SINE WAVE unit, which has been said on this site to be avoided for different reasons. The batteries in these units are generally too small to provide a nights run for cpap units especially running a humidifier. The larger units will have a pure sinewave inverter and a larger battery but will still only provide a modest amount of performance when we end up looking at days or perhaps over a weeks time without power.

Inverters, they come in various sizes, modified and sine waveform, plus different input voltages from 12 to 48 volts. The larger ones also come with built in AC switching and battery chargers like the unintteruptable power supplies, add batteries, wire in your house power and you have a far better unintteruptable power supply.

Small inverters for the most part are inexpensive modified sinewave units that run on 12 volt power, power that you find in the various vehicles that we use from the car, boat, motorhome, etc. They can be had in power from less than 100 watts to 1000 watts for $100 or less. They will power a great amount of different equipment if sized properly.

Here's one example http://www.invertersrus.com/xp400.html

Small sinewave inverters can be had but a 150watt unit starts at $100 and the 300watt unit needed to run our cpap machine can run $140 or more depending on the quality of the unit. They also do not have the surge capability to start larger equipment

Here's one example http://www.invertersrus.com/inv300ps.html

Large inverters, 1500 to 3600watts, can be had in modified or pure sinewave also but generally include a built in battery charger with ac switching. With the addition of a battery bank and your house ac wired into them you can run your cpap machine, lights, TV, and refrigerator for days depending on the size of your battery bank.

Here's some examples of modified sinewave units: http://www.solardepot.com/dpc_inv_mod-sq-wv.htm

Here's some examples of pure sinewave units: http://www.solardepot.com/dpc_inv_sinewave-trace.htm

The large inverters run from roughly $600 to over $3000 dependending on wave form and functions but when it comes down to surviving these inverters could support you without much effort and then if you add a 5000 watt generator and some fuel, for weeks!

I have run my house with a Xantrex DR2424 modified sine wave inverter since 1995 with no problems. The Sanyo 32 inch TV doesn't care, the Dish DVR satellite system doesn't care, the KLLM home theatre doesn't care, 2 laptops and 1 desktop don't care, the refrigerator don't care, everything that I have plugged into that inverter runs without any problems. Since May of 2005 I have been running my cpap equipment on it, never had a thought about it until I read on this site it was a no no, hmmm.....

Well, the Remstar Pro/Cflex & HH and now the Remstar Auto/Cflex & HH run just fine. The little Fisher&Paykel HC100 humidifier cycles just fine, the little green lightes show me that, great little unit, I like it better than the Remstar unit. Perhaps the unfortunate ones that had problems had different brand units, that would be an interesting bit of information. I had ran the Pro since May 2005 till a few weeks ago, we will see what the Auto does.

But, of course, if your are fortunate not to need a Humidifier, the Remstar Auto manual says that it will consume up to 1.7 amps of your 12volt power. My thoughts, 2 six volt golf cart batteries in series, 12volts eh, 350 amp hours should give ya about 20 days or so, charge them weekly and puff on!

Charlie

With all that said above it is only my experience that my equipment listed runs on modified sinewave inverters! Be careful in your experimentation, cheaper inverters may not perform as well!!! The warning goes for folks looking to use low priced UPS's, they use modified sinewave inverters in them!!! When they set me up with my first machine I didn't think about the equipment not liking inverters because I had been running my whole house for years on a large modified sinewave inverter. Have fun Charlie.

I forgot to say, I already have the Converter I mentioned.

I use it to run the Laptop or other electronics in the car.

I realized that while the converter was being used by others, and I was dosing off, that I needed a solution.

I was hoping to be able to run the Laptop and the APAP from the same converter, with an extender on. I need something that I can use with a cigarette lighter. (I do not have time to order anything specific to Respironic.)

Snoredog, thanks for the link. I will look into this 12V adapter. My car has two cigarette lighters. This adapter is much less expensive then buying another inverter.

Bill very good reminder about the car battery and not draining the battery.

Charlie thanks for the warning. Will verify my battery back up back home.

Thank you everyone for your help.

Can the humidifier be run with the adapter SnoreDog mentioned?

SnoreDog what do you mean by they will match " the end with your machine" ?

And how do you get the polarity right?



Just go down to RadioShack and get a cigarette lighter 12VDC adapter, they will match the end with your machine, just get the polarity right.

The Resmed S8 units will operate quite satisfactorily of "modified sine wave" type inverters, which are quite common now a days and in no way "$pecial".

They don't like "square wave" converters much, but as far as I'm aware neither do any of the other brands.

I stand corrected, ResMed S8 xPAPs may be used with a modified sine wave inverters.

When talking about the 200 - 500 watt range; modified sine wave inverters are about 1/3 the cost of pure sine wave inverters, and modified sine wave inverters are much more common than pure sine wave inverters.

According to ResMed's Tech Note: Powering ResMed products with batteries, dated Aug, 2005: HumidAire 2i and 3i humidifiers require true sine wave inverters, and the HumidAire humidifier [no suffix] "Must not be used with inverters !" [emphasis and red color are from the document].

According to an email from Fisher and Paykel engineering, none of the Fisher and Paykel CPAPs and humidifiers care very much about the shape of the input power waveform.

From a ResMed document I read a while back, the reason that the ResMed humidifiers shouldn't be operated from modified sine wave inverters is that the heating elements operate off of AC and that the controllers can be damaged by modified sine wave power.

I believe that F & P humidifiers don't care about input power waveform shape because the humidifier heating element (and the CPAP in the case of an integrated CPAP and humidifier) is powered from an internal switching power supply which is very tolerant of AC input power types.

I finally got a hold of the M series manual.

The manual cautions:

"When DC power is obtained from a vehicle battery, the device should not be used while the wehicle's engine is running. Damage to the Vehicle or the device may occur."

So this means I should not use the charger adapter Snoredog suggested. To bad becuase this seemed as an easy solution.

The other caution is:

"Only use a Respironics DC Power Cord and Battery Adapter Cable. Use of any other system may cause damage to the device or vehicle."

I think I will stick to the original converter and try the extender.

"When DC power is obtained from a vehicle battery, the device should not be used while the wehicle's engine is running. Damage to the Vehicle or the device may occur."

That sounds like something that a lawyer added to the instructions. There may be certain conditions where there may be a hazard, but not normally.

"Only use a Respironics DC Power Cord and Battery Adapter Cable. Use of any other system may cause damage to the device or vehicle."

That sounds like something that a marking droid added to the instructions. There may be certain conditions where there may be a hazard, but not normally.

[quote="Snoredog"]
<snip>

You only need an inverter if you have a Resmad machine, all the Remstars and P&B 420x machines run directly off of 12VDC power.