aveoTSD + CPAP?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOce3_AegNA

I know this device has been talked about before here but has anyone tried the aveoTSD device in conjunction with CPAP?

you really don't need to use cpap with that device, it completely stops OSA. the problem I've read with that device is your tongue gets really sore after a week's use or so. That suction would be like giving your tongue a long term hickey. Snork had used it the longest of anyone I've ever read about.

Too bad you couldn't have a rare earth magnet implanted in your tongue and then a metalic device that you inserted in the mouth like a mouth piece that held the tongue in place.

Another option I've thought of would be a rare earth magnet implanted in the tongue, then a upper mandible retainer made with an oposing rare earch magnet imbedded in the acrylic of the retainer. At night, you insert the retainer place your tongue in the palate to match up the magnets and it holds your tongue in place all night long preventing it from falling into the back of the throat.

Those devices are called TRD's or Tongue Retaining devices, there are others like a dental device which do nothing but hold the tongue out of the airway.

Show me a single MRI similar to what was shown on U-tube where the OSA "blockage" is from VCD and/or the lower away collapsing like a fire hose with the pressure removed.

For most of us, our OSA is caused simply from the tongue falling into the back of the throat and blocking the airway, prevent that from happening and you have solved your OSA problem. The hard part is figuring out how you can do that comfortably where it then gets used over long term.

Snoredog wrote:the problem I've read with that device is your tongue gets really sore after a week's use or so. That suction would be like giving your tongue a long term hickey.

I wonder how it compares to using the Oracle mask that i have been using for the past 3 weeks? The Oracle makes the entire inside of your mouth very sore. Last night I had so much leakage with the Oracle that the CPAP thought I was disconnected and shut off the machine! I went for 3 hours without waking up enough to realize what was wrong... well you can guess what my day was like today...

I like the magnet idea...

I would think you may have difficulty dealing with the nasal congestion, with the aveoTSD device you would almost have to breathe through your nose?

The aveoTSD is a simple device, I wouldn't mind trying one, I would think it wouldn't be any worse then using the Oracle.

It would probably be great for taking a nap, I may be able to out sleep the dog then.

I have used both the oracle and I have the aveo tsd

the oracle is a great concept and if I could plug my nose without pain and sleep or do a weird snort thing, then I would have stuck with that as I continue w/ sinus issues and bridge of nose issues


re; the aveo tsd - it is a pain to get if you live in the us - i live in WA state and had to order it thru NY - with a referral from my dr

but I have severe 76 ahi without treatment and is what I did w/ the aveo tsd was use it with my swift / s8 vantage on straight cpap at a lower level than my titrated level to see or insure that it was working, ie, not still having apneas with the aveo tsd - at first it worked - and you have to work up to it like first night 2 hours, then 4, etc. - longest I could sleep with it was 6 hours and the bottom of my tongue hurt REALLY bad - and then I used it on its own and I started having severe apneas again - per my husband and also I could tell as I started feeling worse

same with the dental devices - they say it won't work for me because of the severity of osa - so I believe same for this - my prob is anatomical with tongue and palate clinging to each other at night -
but I do think it might work - aveo tsd - if you have it mild or moderate - it did stop my snoring - but alas not the apneas
good luck

Snoredog wrote:Too bad you couldn't have a rare earth magnet implanted in your tongue and then a metalic device that you inserted in the mouth like a mouth piece that held the tongue in place.

You CAN have a metallic device inserted in your tongue, and then use a magnet... The only problem is that surgical stainless steel isn't magnetic. *goes back to trying to find creative uses for his piercings*

blarg wrote:

Snoredog wrote:Too bad you couldn't have a rare earth magnet implanted in your tongue and then a metalic device that you inserted in the mouth like a mouth piece that held the tongue in place.

You CAN have a metallic device inserted in your tongue, and then use a magnet... The only problem is that surgical stainless steel isn't magnetic. *goes back to trying to find creative uses for his piercings*

I still think hooking a lip piercing to a tongue piercing would be a great way to treat apnea, AND look stylish at the same time. I keep hoping someone will get brave/desparate enough to try this.

Aveo just had too many issues for ME. But I have a very short tongue and MAYBE others would have better luck.
aveo issues:
Excess drooling reduces with time.(towel on pillow req'd at first)
Tounge soreness from the clamping action gets better with time.
Tounge "web" soreness never did go away for me, or improve much.(could be my "short" tongue driving that problem)
Biggest problem was trying to hold suction all night without having too much suction. I think if it had some way to fine tune the suction, it MIGHT be a MUCH more viable device.
The other major problem was its round where it sticks out through your teeth. No flat area for the teeth to rest. This makes for much soreness of teeth and jaw as your teeth rock back and forth all night.

For approx the same price($160) and no prescription required, I would suggest experimenting with a Somnoguard AP dental device if you are trying to figure out if getting the tongue moved forward will help on its own or to lower the CPAP pressure. Then IF that works, you can consider if its worth $1700 for an "upgrade" like a TAP device which is less bulky, and you can get it fitted and tracked by a Certified Sleep dentist.

Of course if your tongue/jaw is NOT the primary root cause for your apnea, then save your money and buy yet another mask in the search for the Mask Holy Grail.

see all disclaimers

snork1 wrote: Of course if your tongue/jaw is NOT the primary root cause for your apnea, then save your money and buy yet another mask in the search for the Mask Holy Grail.

I think this is one of the most annoying aspects of sleep apnea treatment today. They don't seem to have a system in place to determine exactly what part of the airway is the problem. Because of that you just have to guess. One would think that with an MRI or some technology they would be able to tell exactly where the problem exists.

jskinner wrote:

snork1 wrote: Of course if your tongue/jaw is NOT the primary root cause for your apnea, then save your money and buy yet another mask in the search for the Mask Holy Grail.

I think this is one of the most annoying aspects of sleep apnea treatment today. They don't seem to have a system in place to determine exactly what part of the airway is the problem. Because of that you just have to guess. One would think that with an MRI or some technology they would be able to tell exactly where the problem exists.

I don't know exactly why the sleep specialist that I saw told me this, but:

I asked about surgery, as I felt it was a good question to at least ask. He replied that due to my anatomy, it would not be possible for surgery to correct my apnea. Thus, there must be SOME indication.

BTW, I tend to have a small mouth and a receding chin--I'm sure that may have something to do with his conclusion.

I WAS FIRST DIAGNOSED WITH OSA IN JULY 2008 AND LIKE EVERY ONE ELSE WHO HAS THIS DIAGNOSES,IS WAS TOLD ABOUT THE GOLD STANDARD.EVERY APNEA WEBSITE THAT I GO TO YOU READ THE SAME THING.FIRST OF ALL I AM NOT IN DENIAL,I HAVE APNEA AND IT CAN KILL ME.FOR SOME PEOPLE THEY ARE TOLD OVER AN OVER AGAIN THAT CPAP IS THE ANSWER.APNEA PATIENTS ARE BRAIN WASHED INTO THINKING THAT THERE IS NO THERAPY BUT CPAP.AT TIMES I THINK THAT MOST SLEEP DOCTORS HAVE A LOT OF STOCK IN THE CPAP COMPANIES AND THE DME'S.AND MAY BE GETTING KICK BACKS FROM THOSE COMPANIES.THE DOCTORS AND THE DME REPS TELL YOU JUST GET USED TO HAVING HURRICANE KATRINA STRAPPED ON THEIR FACE.JUST GET USED TO THE OVER PRICED MASKS THAT LEAK AND THE 50 LBS OF TIGHTNESS ON THEIR STRAPS JUST TO HOLD THE THING ON YOUR FACE THEN THEY TELL YOU THAT THE PERFECT MASK IS JUST AROUND THE CORNER.IT REMINDS ME OF THE SCENE IN THE FIRST ALIENS MOVIE WHEN THE HALF SQUID AND HALF CRAP CLIMBS ON TO YOUR FACE.FIRST OF ALL CPAP'S ARE OBSOLETE.THEY TELL YOU YOU WILL GET USED TOTHE RESISTANCE OF YOU LABORED BREATHING OUT AGAINST THE INCOMING PRESSURE. YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN,IT'S LIKE BREATHING INTO A BALLON ALL NIGHT LONG.I AM A AIRCRAFT MECHANIC i KNOW ALL ABOUT OXYGEN MASK REGULATORS. PILOT DO NOT HAVE TO BREATH AGAINST 300 LBS OF PRESSURE.THERE IS ABSOLUTLY NO REASON THAT YOU HAVE TO ACCEPT THAT YOU CAN'T EXHALE NORMALLY. THIS IS THE 21ST CENTURY.BIPAS AND CFLEX ARE OPTIONS FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE.THEN YOU HAVE PEOPLE LIKE ME,THAT EVEN THOUGH YOU HAVE A HUMIDIFIED FISHER AND PAYKIIL AND A HUMIDIFIER IN YOUR BED ROOM.YOUR RINITUS MAKES YOU APNEA THROUGH YOUR NOSE.THEN THEY TELL YOU THAT THEY HAVE TO CUT OUT YOUR SEPTUM AND PACK YOUR NOSE COMPLETELY WITH GAUZE FOR THE NEXT 6 WEEKS SO YOU CAN'T BREATH. THE ONLY REASON THAT I AM WRITING THIS IS TO SAVE YOU FROM WHAT I HAD TO GO THROUGH.I DECIDED TO GO THE ORAL APPLIANCE ROUTE AND I AM SURE GLAD THAT I DID. SINCE I HAVE NO TEETH A TAP WILL NOT WORK FOR ME BECAUSE I CAN NOT MOVE MY JAW FORWARD. AND THEN A DENTIST IN COLUMBUS OHIO FOUND A SOLUTION FOR ME. iT IS CALLED AVEO tsd AND IT IS MADE IN NEW ZEALAND BUT IS APPROVED BY THE FDA. APNEA IS SIMPLE MECHANICS. YOUR TONGUE BLOCKS YOUR AIRWAYS. THE TOUNGE STABILIZING DEVICE THROUGH SUCTION HOLDS YOUR TONGUE OUT.IT REALLY WORKS.100% COMPLIANCE FROM THE FIRST DAY THAT YOU USE IT.iT COST THE SAME AS ONE CPAP MASK $150.YOU JUST HAVE TO GO TO A DENTIST AND YOUR SLEEP DOCTOR CAN FIND A GOOD ONE FOR YOU. BUT IF YOU STILL WANT TO BELIEVE THAT YOU HAVE TO ACCEPT CPAP GO AHEAD AND KEEP TELLING YOURSELF THAT IS IS THE ONLY THING THAT WORKS OUT THERE.kEEP LISTENING TO THE BULL THAT YOU WILL JUST GET OVER IT

You can use Sea Bond Denurite. CVS has it. I tired everything that I could think of for 4 weeks and it still fell out.Denurite is a plastic that is normally used to hold dentures in. But you can use it to make a custom seal in the Aveo TSD. Mix the two samples with the liquid wait about 4 minutes and then wet your finger
and make a smooth even layer in the outer sheath that you tounge goes in. After 5 minutes put it on using the suction bulb as usual. leave it on for 10 minutes and let it cure. Remove the Aveo and trim the excess with a single edge razor blade. You can take the new seal out when you want to clean the Aveo. Just place it back into the sheath and push it as far as it will go. It will stay in place with your tounge is in it.It works great I do not know why anyone would still want to use a CPAP. No I am not a rep for the company. I am just like all of you.I have apnea and I will die from it if I am not complient with therapy.This is the 21st century.And the old solutions of the 1980's the era that CPAP was created are primative and out dated

Here are links to some topics where snork1 discussed his experience trying the Aveo tongue device:

Somnoguard AP vs Aveo TSD
viewtopic/p334869/viewtopic.php?p=144209#p144209

Aveao TSD vs dental device
viewtopic/p334869/viewtopic.php?p=135042#p135042

Surgery: My final option. Death is better than this....
viewtopic/p334869/viewtopic.php?p=99876#p99876

birdshell wrote:I don't know exactly why the sleep specialist that I saw told me this, but:

I asked about surgery, as I felt it was a good question to at least ask. He replied that due to my anatomy, it would not be possible for surgery to correct my apnea. Thus, there must be SOME indication.

BTW, I tend to have a small mouth and a receding chin--I'm sure that may have something to do with his conclusion.

The sleep specialist's unfamiliarity with or distrust of MMA (Maxillo Mandibular Advancement -- moving the jaw forward) surgery might have also had something to do with his answer to your question about "surgery." But I'd bet when you said "surgery" he may have been thinking more along the lines of soft palate surgery (UPPP) or tongue reduction surgery, or tongue advancement surgery. Regarding those he was right (imho) to steer you away from "surgery."

But MMA is a whole other ballgame, and if done by an experienced surgeon, like Dr. Kasey Li at Stanford, on people he examines and thinks to be good candidates for it (I'm betting most of them have a receding chin) there's a 90% or better rate of longterm success.

But..MMA surgery is bigtime expensive.

THE HARD TRUTH wrote:I WAS FIRST DIAGNOSED WITH OSA IN JULY 2008 AND LIKE EVERY ONE ELSE WHO HAS THIS DIAGNOSES,IS WAS TOLD ABOUT THE GOLD STANDARD.EVERY APNEA WEBSITE THAT I GO TO YOU READ THE SAME THING.FIRST OF ALL I AM NOT IN DENIAL,I HAVE APNEA AND IT CAN KILL ME.FOR SOME PEOPLE THEY ARE TOLD OVER AN OVER AGAIN THAT CPAP IS THE ANSWER.APNEA PATIENTS ARE BRAIN WASHED INTO THINKING THAT THERE IS NO THERAPY BUT CPAP.AT TIMES I THINK THAT MOST SLEEP DOCTORS HAVE A LOT OF STOCK IN THE CPAP COMPANIES AND THE DME'S.AND MAY BE GETTING KICK BACKS FROM THOSE COMPANIES.THE DOCTORS AND THE DME REPS TELL YOU JUST GET USED TO HAVING HURRICANE KATRINA STRAPPED ON THEIR FACE.JUST GET USED TO THE OVER PRICED MASKS THAT LEAK AND THE 50 LBS OF TIGHTNESS ON THEIR STRAPS JUST TO HOLD THE THING ON YOUR FACE THEN THEY TELL YOU THAT THE PERFECT MASK IS JUST AROUND THE CORNER.IT REMINDS ME OF THE SCENE IN THE FIRST ALIENS MOVIE WHEN THE HALF SQUID AND HALF CRAP CLIMBS ON TO YOUR FACE.FIRST OF ALL CPAP'S ARE OBSOLETE.THEY TELL YOU YOU WILL GET USED TOTHE RESISTANCE OF YOU LABORED BREATHING OUT AGAINST THE INCOMING PRESSURE. YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN,IT'S LIKE BREATHING INTO A BALLON ALL NIGHT LONG.I AM A AIRCRAFT MECHANIC i KNOW ALL ABOUT OXYGEN MASK REGULATORS. PILOT DO NOT HAVE TO BREATH AGAINST 300 LBS OF PRESSURE.THERE IS ABSOLUTLY NO REASON THAT YOU HAVE TO ACCEPT THAT YOU CAN'T EXHALE NORMALLY. THIS IS THE 21ST CENTURY.BIPAS AND CFLEX ARE OPTIONS FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE.THEN YOU HAVE PEOPLE LIKE ME,THAT EVEN THOUGH YOU HAVE A HUMIDIFIED FISHER AND PAYKIIL AND A HUMIDIFIER IN YOUR BED ROOM.YOUR RINITUS MAKES YOU APNEA THROUGH YOUR NOSE.THEN THEY TELL YOU THAT THEY HAVE TO CUT OUT YOUR SEPTUM AND PACK YOUR NOSE COMPLETELY WITH GAUZE FOR THE NEXT 6 WEEKS SO YOU CAN'T BREATH. THE ONLY REASON THAT I AM WRITING THIS IS TO SAVE YOU FROM WHAT I HAD TO GO THROUGH.I DECIDED TO GO THE ORAL APPLIANCE ROUTE AND I AM SURE GLAD THAT I DID. SINCE I HAVE NO TEETH A TAP WILL NOT WORK FOR ME BECAUSE I CAN NOT MOVE MY JAW FORWARD. AND THEN A DENTIST IN COLUMBUS OHIO FOUND A SOLUTION FOR ME. iT IS CALLED AVEO tsd AND IT IS MADE IN NEW ZEALAND BUT IS APPROVED BY THE FDA. APNEA IS SIMPLE MECHANICS. YOUR TONGUE BLOCKS YOUR AIRWAYS. THE TOUNGE STABILIZING DEVICE THROUGH SUCTION HOLDS YOUR TONGUE OUT.IT REALLY WORKS.100% COMPLIANCE FROM THE FIRST DAY THAT YOU USE IT.iT COST THE SAME AS ONE CPAP MASK $150.YOU JUST HAVE TO GO TO A DENTIST AND YOUR SLEEP DOCTOR CAN FIND A GOOD ONE FOR YOU. BUT IF YOU STILL WANT TO BELIEVE THAT YOU HAVE TO ACCEPT CPAP GO AHEAD AND KEEP TELLING YOURSELF THAT IS IS THE ONLY THING THAT WORKS OUT THERE.kEEP LISTENING TO THE BULL THAT YOU WILL JUST GET OVER IT

DUDE, take your caps lock off, please