Effect of fresh, clean air on improving apnea?

I feel it is easy to overlook the basics with apnea. I had a bit of "lightbulb moment" over the weekend when I was staying in a rural location.

I slept better despite the unfamiliar bed and cannot help but feel it was down to the quiet and fresh, cleaner air in a location surrounded by trees.

When I arrived I noticed my room had just had a new carpet fitted, and found myself holding my breath because of the smell. I am sensitive to some chemicals. I figured that I was breath-holding while awake I probably would while asleep. Plus add anxiety about it. So I changed rooms to one with older carpet.

So there are two variations on the same point here. It is quite natural for the mind and body to resist breathing in toxic air, be that from furnishings, traffic fumes or whatever.

So how much of factor could this be in central apnea? Hard to quantify but logically fresh air is not going to hurt, and probably help.

Back home it is not so good. I live on a busy road and to keep the fumes and noise out of my bedroom I sleep with the window shut although I do leave one or two open in an adjacent room in the hope that some air will waft through.

Some mornings there is a real smell of stale air, like I have used up a lot of oxygen and replaced it with CO2. If you have ever experienced this you will know what I mean.

Anyone had an improvement in sleep quality and AHI after sleeping in an environment with fresher air?

While probably everyone benefits from fresh air, I'm not sure central apnea would benefit even more (or less) so as it's just a matter of something in your brain not triggering breathing... certainly haven't heard of any research on it.

The "stale air" smell can often be remedied.
Aromatherapy, like snugglesense or pur-sleep are intended for cpap use.
Or using fabric fresheners on linens/window coverings.
Room air cleaners may be worth a shot--but check IMPARTIAL reviews--not the
phony testimonials on company sites.

Air going thru your XPAP isn't fresher than your room air, it is cleaner though. The only thing I can see as it's improving Sleep events is, less stuff in the air helps keep the bodies running without triggering defenses from your body. Fresh air doesn't exist, the best we can do is after a lightening storm and rain, after the dirt and chemicals are washed away.

Our body takes care of smells, it adapts to them, seeing them as normal. Jim

I feel I would be better off through the simple expedient of an open window when weather permits and living in a more rural place, but the latter in particular is not going to happen so easily. There are degrees of freshness with air.

My apnea was never worse than when I lived in a particularly polluted area of a nearby city. I think research is needed on this but there's not much profit in telling people that whereas there is in getting them to use a very expensive and complex techno-fix. Although I recognise better air quality alone is not the solution.

As for why it might affect central apnea more, well CA is the result of a failure of the brain to send a breathe command which seems to me to be more likely to be caused by pollution than OSA, which is the result of airways closing up.

My guess is that there's a particular issue with your residence, not a general improvement due to being in a rural area.

Chalkie wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:40 am

I feel it is easy to overlook the basics with apnea.

Yes, I agree. It is very easy to have nonscientific thoughts based on nothing more than our personal assumptions, and that process can easily get in the way of approaching our problems in a medically sound way.

Chalkie wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:40 am

I had a bit of "lightbulb moment" over the weekend when I was staying in a rural location.

True light-bulb moments should be based on scientific observation that is reproducible in studies so that the data can be established and verified.

Chalkie wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:40 am

I slept better despite the unfamiliar bed and cannot help but feel it was down to the quiet and fresh, cleaner air in a location surrounded by trees.

What data was used to verify the "slept better" hypothesis?

Chalkie wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:40 am

So how much of factor could this be in central apnea? Hard to quantify but logically fresh air is not going to hurt, and probably help.

Likely no factor whatsoever, but if one day studies indicate otherwise, then we will know. Interestingly, though, rebreathing some CO2 actually HELPS some forms of central apnea. So by your definition of "fresh air," it could actually hurt some people more than help, in that context. Nothing smells sweeter than high mountain air, but that fresh air, above a certain elevation, will CAUSE centrals for me, no matter how great it smells.

Chalkie wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:40 am

Some mornings there is a real smell of stale air, like I have used up a lot of oxygen and replaced it with CO2. If you have ever experienced this you will know what I mean.

I don't, since CO2 is completely odorless until it reaches a high enough level that it smells acidic.

I got nuthin' against fresh air. But I also have not read any studies, myself, that would make me think the perceptions of the freshness of air is anything approaching a basic factor in sleep-disordered breathing. And, according to my understanding, the studies on the effects of rebreathing CO2 in a controlled way indicate that the effect varies depending on the sensitivities of the patient.

But hey, just me.

chunkyfrog wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:54 am

The "stale air" smell can often be remedied.
Aromatherapy, like snugglesense or pur-sleep are intended for cpap use.
Or using fabric fresheners on linens/window coverings.
Room air cleaners may be worth a shot--but check IMPARTIAL reviews--not the
phony testimonials on company sites.

In my opinion, aromatherapy and fabric fresheners are like putting lipstick on a pig. The air may smell better if you like that sort of thing, but it doesn't make the air fresher or of better quality. Instead, you are breathing in small particulates of things (fabric fresheners, in particular are distillates of petroleum with scent added ) So much is toxic and even if a single scented product is not THAT toxic you are adding to your toxic load. You and your lungs don't need that!

I'm a little chemically sensitive. I can't stand how people load the environment with all of these chemical smells. I can't walk into a lot of stores nowadays between the candles, the room air fresheners, the scented this and that, I have to avoid the cleaning products aisles in the grocery stores, and some people's houses just reek of chemical air fresheners wafting in the air from candles, incense, potpourri, fabric sprays, etc. Add that to people dowsed in scented products (shampoos, conditioners, soaps, lotions, deodorants, laundry detergent and dryer sheets, perfumes, colognes, and car "air fresheners"--URGH. I keep a physical distance from many people, too. Besides making me miserable, it can make me feel sick and sometimes it's just enough to put me over the edge and trigger an asthmatic exacerbation.

Thanks, Janknitz. Now my post doesn't seem so contrary, next to yours.

Sometimes the pig needs to feel pretty.
A bit of lipstick, a frilly frock . . .

It is an old house--and we don't have the resources to rebuild.
Sometimes you do what you can.
I had to sniff several dozen samples to find a couple that don't make me choke.

Here's some evidence I found on Google straight off:

https://www.medicinenet.com/script/main ... key=117267

https://www.lifehack.org/323241/study-f ... h-benefits

jnk... wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:27 pm

Chalkie wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:40 am

I feel it is easy to overlook the basics with apnea.

Yes, I agree. It is very easy to have nonscientific thoughts based on nothing more than our personal assumptions, and that process can easily get in the way of approaching our problems in a medically sound way.

Chalkie wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:40 am

I had a bit of "lightbulb moment" over the weekend when I was staying in a rural location.

True light-bulb moments should be based on scientific observation that is reproducible in studies so that the data can be established and verified.

Don't agree. An apple falling on Isaac Newton's head led to scientific observation and a major breakthrough in physics. All scientific progress starts as a mere idea. What;s wrong with a bit of lateral thinking? That's how we will eventually progress to a superior and less cumbersome traetment than PAP. And no doubt how PAP itself came about. As an idea, originally

Chalkie wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:40 am

I slept better despite the unfamiliar bed and cannot help but feel it was down to the quiet and fresh, cleaner air in a location surrounded by trees.

What data was used to verify the "slept better" hypothesis? [/quote]

None as yet. Ia m just saying I felt better. It is just that - a hypothesis. may I suggest you do some research on the health benefits of being around trees? I am saying I felt better, When I check the AHI that may give further clues. It seems to me a very left-brained approach to dismiss completely anything that is not all about objective facts and figures at the moment. Nort everything can be measured by a computer.

Chalkie wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:40 am

So how much of factor could this be in central apnea? Hard to quantify but logically fresh air is not going to hurt, and probably help.

Likely no factor whatsoever, but if one day studies indicate otherwise, then we will know. Interestingly, though, rebreathing some CO2 actually HELPS some forms of central apnea. So by your definition of "fresh air," it could actually hurt some people more than help, in that context. Nothing smells sweeter than high mountain air, but that fresh air, above a certain elevation, will CAUSE centrals for me, no matter how great it smells. [/quote]

Some individuals have chemical sensitivities that others do not. If their bodies instinctivrely recoil at airbaorne pollutants and react by breath holding? Would bto not great surprise.

I think you are mixing up two different things. Get enough altitude and anyone will experience breathing difficulties. Breathing fresh air, i.e. air that has a far lower concentration of toxic gases and particles than the gunk any of us living in an urbnn area have to breathe may help ease apnea, I postulate.

Chalkie wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:40 am

Some mornings there is a real smell of stale air, like I have used up a lot of oxygen and replaced it with CO2. If you have ever experienced this you will know what I mean.

I don't, since CO2 is completely odorless until it reaches a high enough level that it smells acidic.

I got nuthin' against fresh air. But I also have not read any studies, myself, that would make me think the perceptions of the freshness of air is anything approaching a basic factor in sleep-disordered breathing. And, according to my understanding, the studies on the effects of rebreathing CO2 in a controlled way indicate that the effect varies depending on the sensitivities of the patient. [/quote]

You have now.

But hey, just me.
[/quote]

No problem, debate is healthy.

Back in 1965, at a airport in Alaska, they had canned Alaska Air for sale for 50 cents a can (Soup sized can). I never never bought any the label didn't have a expiration date on the label, it might have gone bad! Jim

Not a fan of that "study."

I believe that it is possible to claim to "link" any two variables when you use your own biases to tweak your own linear regression models, as it appears to me they did. A model that is built out of reframing the models of yet other models is so far removed from reality as to be practically meaningless as "science," in my opinion. But hey, one must get one's funding from somewhere based on something, I guess--so more power to them.

Trees negatively impact my AHI. My hypothesis? Pollen is evil. The hypo filter on my S9 helps, if I am able to manage to stay far enough away from so-called fresh air, that is.

Goddamn that fresh air, let me wallow in a chemical soup that humans never had to deal with until <150 years ago and let PAP fix it all. Silly old me.

More research needed for sure. But it's basic common sense really. You can get so lost in hi-tech you can't see the wood from the trees - if you'll pardon the pun. Sorry about the pollen allergy but that is not the point.

Gallieo was locked up when he suggested the earth revolved around the sun, wasn't he? Crazy heliocentric dude.

Maybe anthropogenic global warning is just made up by "tree huggers" and biased science? Some maintain so.

https://www.sleepapnea.org/how-pollutio ... ep-health/

https://www.thoracic.org/about/newsroom ... -sleep.php

We are all free to believe what we want. I know what I think.

Does the American Thoracic Society have no credibility?

Much of truth is counter-intuitive.

Unless you wear your CPAP outdoors, the pollutants out there aren't the primary concern, anyway. Many home interiors are 10-times more polluted than the outdoors, by plastic off-gassing and chemical "fresheners." Those measurements would have to be the ones studied for the research to be meaningful, in my opinion, for CPAPpers. Practically speaking, most of us can't afford to move to another city or location far enough in the country to increase our fresh-air intake, anyway--regardless of what certain researchers may be trying to sell us with their "science" on this question of pollution and sleep.

I am not taking a pro-pollutant stance. But using so-called "common sense" in an attempt to improve sleep-breathing is not something I endorse as a medical approach to serious life-threatening sleep-breathing conditions. From where I sit, such hypothetical meanderings easily serve to distract people from getting real help using real approaches that matter. That's why I tend to file "why don't you try getting some fresh air" suggestions right next to the "why don't you try losing weight" suggestions and "why don't you try not sleeping on your back" suggestions--they sound plausibly meaningful at first, but actually aren't, in practice, scientifically speaking, until long-term benefits to the overall approaches get quantified and documented in a way that can be applied by clinicians for improving treatment.

That said, I enjoy threads such as this one, and appreciate your posts and comments. If your personal experience is that you find the perception of fresh air to help your perceptions of the quality of your sleep, that is useful information for the board.

I like puppies and bunnies and fresh-smelling air and rainbows, despite my general overall skepticism about their improving sleep in any meaningful way day to day for a large segment of the population.