Old distilled water

I don't normally have a problem with throat irritation at all but I have noticed that when I use a gallon of distilled water that has been opened and sitting around for a few weeks I get a lot of burning in my mouth and throat. Also sometimes a new gallon will cause this. If I switch to a fresh new gallon the problem goes away again. Has anyone else noticed this?

I can't imagine that the age of distilled water would cause your issue. My wife and I both use the same open gallon of distilled water and have never had any ill effects from it. It's usually open (unsealed) for at least two weeks before we replace it.

Just my experience. I would guess it's something else causing the irritation.

NikkiL wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 16, 2018 3:03 pm

I don't normally have a problem with throat irritation at all but I have noticed that when I use a gallon of distilled water that has been opened and sitting around for a few weeks I get a lot of burning in my mouth and throat. Also sometimes a new gallon will cause this. If I switch to a fresh new gallon the problem goes away again. Has anyone else noticed this?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16236866

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5611769/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3716664/

Science says that the distilled water has nothing to do with it.

Along the lines of 'old distilled water'.

On vacation, I used distilled water I had left in my brother's camper LAST YEAR.
It was perfectly fine, even though it had probably frozen solid at least once last winter.
It amuses me when expiration dates are printed on items that DO NOT EXPIRE.
I am still using SodaStream bottles that "expired" several years ago.
I do not like their newer bottles, and refuse to buy them.

chunkyfrog wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 16, 2018 7:10 pm

It amuses me when expiration dates are printed on items that DO NOT EXPIRE.
I am still using SodaStream bottles that "expired" several years ago.
I do not like their newer bottles, and refuse to buy them.

I had a jug of distilled water sitting by my desk.. one day, I noticed the floor was damp. the jug had developed a couple cracks in it and was seeping.

I took it back, pointed to the cracks, and the fact that my water hadn't even 'expired' yet... got a free gallon

irritating when the container expires before the contents do!

However, there are bacteria (Pseudomonas spp.) that can grow in distilled water, using the carbon in the plastic as their sole carbon source. They can even grow on stainless steel surfaces with no carbon source. Nobody really knows how they do that. Kinda evokes images of the Andromeda Strain. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Andromeda_Strain

My former employer (a large pharmaceutical company) had an old office building that some penny-pinching genius in Plant Services converted into a suite of laboratories. They bought a nice deionized water system and plumbed the building using 2" PVC pipe. Like putting Hankook tires on an Aston-Martin. After sanitizing the pipe and installing filters, etc., the individual congratulated himself on how much money he saved the company, pronounced, "Alles gut!" and fired up the system.

We worked for a couple of years in that building with no problems. Then the conductivity in the deionized water loop began to degrade. What was supposed to be 18 megaohm/cm water was . . . maybe 8 or 9 on a good day. You can't do any good lab work when your water isn't pure, so after e-mailing back and forth for a while, the Microbilogy lab tested water samples and found Pseudomonas bacteria throughout the loop. Apparently once they got into the system, it was impossible to sanitize it.

The loop was abandoned and, at great expense, a stainless steel loop with ozonizers, UV sterilizers and automatic monitoring equipment was installed. The old adage, "There's never enough time (or money) to do the job right the first time, but you can bet your backside there's time (and money) to make it right later. Especially when you're working in a highly regulated environment!

Point of my story is that an old distilled water bottle, even if it's factory sealed, might be contaminated with a high level of bacteria which can produce all sorts of metabolic wastes that your immune system will most certainly take umbrage to. Hence the precise symptoms you described in your initial post.

And you know that slippery film that develops over time on the metal surfaces of your humidifier reservoir? Ever wondered what it is caused by? Yep, Pseudomonas bacteria. Clean your reservoir!

https://www.gwtltd.com/combatting-pseud ... r-systems/

Slartybartfast wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 16, 2018 7:30 pm

However, there are bacteria (Pseudomonas spp.) that can grow in distilled water,

However, according to the studies I quoted... they are not transferred from the water tank into the hose.

That's right. I guess I didn't explain very well.

In the original poster's case, it's not the bacteria that are responsible for the symptoms described. It's their metabolic byproducts. Kind of like why you and I might not want to use the pool at the YMCA after the Water Babies class ended and Moms with saggy diaper-clad babies head for the shower rooms.

The metabolic byproducts of bacteria consist of proteins, polysaccharides, lipopolysaccharides and other organic compounds. Many of the compounds, like the dander clinging to the fur of a housecat, are allergenic; they cause the immune system to perceive a threat, even though there may not be any live bacteria present.

What I expect might be happening is the following: As the water in the reservoir slowly evaporates, the free metabolites and the water and the bacterial film transferred to the reservoir from the water bottle dries. Some of it sloughs off and is carried away by the air stream. Directly into the throat and lungs. You can even smell and taste it when your reservoir dries out in the middle of the night and your machine suddenly shuts off. Sort of the smell/taste of tide flats on a hot day. When the particles contact mucous membranes, it isn't long before an immune response is initiated. And it doesn't take very much of those materials to initiate one. There's a variant of the flu vaccine that is administered intranasally.

But just as the dander-coated fur of a long-haired housecat doesn't cause everyone to develop red swollen itchy eyes and sneeze uncontrollably, some people are more susceptible to it than are others. I suspect the original poster might have been sensitive.

To be clear, I think the commercials aired on late night TV and AM talk radio stations, which hawk CPAP cleaning gadgets and solutions are totally bogus and someone ought to challenge their marketeers to prove their claims. Nobody contracts a disease from a CPAP machine. At least, nobody without a severely compromised immune system.

The symptoms reported by the original poster are consistent with those of a localized immunological response. An aerosol containing dried metabolites and/or biofilm created by Pseudomonas which are known to thrive on plastic surfaces in contact with water, is a plausible explanation for the symptoms described.

All it takes to keep that from happening is to keep the humidifier reservoir reasonably clean** and to avoid using water that you know is old. If in doubt, drink the distilled water. Unless you're immune-compromised it won't hurt you to do so. Or water your African violets with it. Or bathe the cat, if you dare. And use tap water in the humidifier until you can get a fresh bottle of distilled water.

**Once a month works for me these past 7 years.

https://jcm.asm.org/content/49/6/2093.long

Distilled water bonds with co2 (from the air) to form carbolic acid, so it's slightly acidic. In theory then, the longer it is exposed to the air, especially when the surface area is increased (like when you've used 1/3 of the gallon and the container is wider), the higher the concentration of carbolic acid. I know this is not a big concern health wise but it seems perfectly logical that the slight decrease in PH created by the higher concentration of acid could cause more irritation than a fresh new gallon that has not been exposed to as much air. My other theory is simply that sometimes a gallon is exposed to something else that can cause the irritation. All I know for sure is that switching to a fresh new gallon helps.

palerider wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 16, 2018 6:54 pm

NikkiL wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 16, 2018 3:03 pm

I don't normally have a problem with throat irritation at all but I have noticed that when I use a gallon of distilled water that has been opened and sitting around for a few weeks I get a lot of burning in my mouth and throat. Also sometimes a new gallon will cause this. If I switch to a fresh new gallon the problem goes away again. Has anyone else noticed this?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16236866

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5611769/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3716664/

Science says that the distilled water has nothing to do with it.

This all has to do with germs, I'm not saying it's 'germy' old water, or even water that's past it's expiration but unopened. It really is a mystery to me why I seem to be the only one affected by this 'opened more than three weeks ago' phenomenon. Great links to great info though! Thanks for trying.

Slartybartfast wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 17, 2018 1:14 am

That's right. I guess I didn't explain very well.

In the original poster's case, it's not the bacteria that are responsible for the symptoms described....

The symptoms reported by the original poster are consistent with those of a localized immunological response. An aerosol containing dried metabolites and/or biofilm created by Pseudomonas which are known to thrive on plastic surfaces in contact with water, is a plausible explanation for the symptoms described.

All it takes to keep that from happening is to keep the humidifier reservoir reasonably clean** and to avoid using water that you know is old. If in doubt, drink the distilled water. Unless you're immune-compromised it won't hurt you to do so. Or water your African violets with it. Or bathe the cat, if you dare. And use tap water in the humidifier until you can get a fresh bottle of distilled water.

**Once a month works for me these past 7 years.

https://jcm.asm.org/content/49/6/2093.long

All very well said! Thank you and I think you are on to something! I may just use it to bathe my cat, but you'll have to come help me,haha. Oh and I wash all my cpap stuff weekly and would never allow that slimy biofilm to form, yuck!

NikkiL wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 16, 2018 3:03 pm

I don't normally have a problem with throat irritation at all but I have noticed that when I use a gallon of distilled water that has been opened and sitting around for a few weeks I get a lot of burning in my mouth and throat. Also sometimes a new gallon will cause this. If I switch to a fresh new gallon the problem goes away again. Has anyone else noticed this?

It's possible that something in the plastic is leaching into the water. I'd see if a new jug makes a difference.

palerider wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 16, 2018 7:21 pm

chunkyfrog wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 16, 2018 7:10 pm

It amuses me when expiration dates are printed on items that DO NOT EXPIRE.
I am still using SodaStream bottles that "expired" several years ago.
I do not like their newer bottles, and refuse to buy them.

I had a jug of distilled water sitting by my desk.. one day, I noticed the floor was damp. the jug had developed a couple cracks in it and was seeping.

I took it back, pointed to the cracks, and the fact that my water hadn't even 'expired' yet... got a free gallon

irritating when the container expires before the contents do!

It probably cost more to travel to the store and back than the water was worth

Link's suggestion makes a hundred times more sense than any other.
The bullfrog processes about 4 gallons at a time; but my jugs are really heavy plastic,
in which I purchased Arizona tea. It might be that repeatedly reusing these jugs
has rinsed out nearly all of whatever might be in it.
These jugs are likely to be a higher quality than the cheap crap used to package DW.
After all, DW is not intended for ingestion--food regulations might be ignored.