Vastly different AHI from SleepyHead and DreamMapper

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biztraveler
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Vastly different AHI from SleepyHead and DreamMapper

Post by biztraveler » Sun Oct 14, 2018 12:29 pm

I should preface this by saying that I'm only 2 weeks into CPAP therapy, so all of this is new to me.

I worked Friday, then all night Friday, and didn't go to sleep until Saturday night. This is something that happens a few times a year in my job. I tried to stay up until I could go to sleep Saturday night, in order to get back into a normal sleep schedule. I slept like a rock and felt great when I woke up, but my DreamStation told me it was miserable - an AHI of 48.2. As an aside, usually my mask fit is 90-100%, but not sure how it went down so low either.

I downloaded my data into SleepyHead to see what went wrong, but alas, the AHI is showing as only 5.63. Usually, they are fairly close. What gives?

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Pugsy
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Re: Vastly different AHI from SleepyHead and DreamMapper

Post by Pugsy » Sun Oct 14, 2018 1:15 pm

SleepyHead is missing a truckload of hyponeas according to DreamMapper which we assume is according to the machine.

We don't know if DreamMapper is in error or SH is in error. Would be helpful if we could see what Encore Pro has to say about this night.
How badly would you want to see what Encore Pro says?
Did you actually check the machine data available to see what it said? The data you can see on the machine's LCD screen?

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LSAT
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Re: Vastly different AHI from SleepyHead and DreamMapper

Post by LSAT » Sun Oct 14, 2018 1:46 pm

I have never used Dream Mapper, but are you sure the 48.2 is from 10/13 ???? There are all different dates shown.

biztraveler
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Re: Vastly different AHI from SleepyHead and DreamMapper

Post by biztraveler » Sun Oct 14, 2018 2:16 pm

They are definitely for the same date. The DreamStation displays the same number as well.

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Pugsy
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Re: Vastly different AHI from SleepyHead and DreamMapper

Post by Pugsy » Sun Oct 14, 2018 2:31 pm

If the machine itself if reporting the high AHI then it's SH that is the trouble maker for some reason.
Not the first time it missed something. Just yesterday I think it was it happened with a ResMed machine data.

The machine data trumps SleepyHead.

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Re: Vastly different AHI from SleepyHead and DreamMapper

Post by Jas_williams » Sun Oct 14, 2018 2:45 pm

Pugsy wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 2:31 pm
If the machine itself if reporting the high AHI then it's SH that is the trouble maker for some reason.
Not the first time it missed something. Just yesterday I think it was it happened with a ResMed machine data.

The machine data trumps SleepyHead.
You need to sort your leaks, therapeutic pressure is being lost possibly causing the hypopnea

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Re: Vastly different AHI from SleepyHead and DreamMapper

Post by Pugsy » Sun Oct 14, 2018 2:52 pm

Jas_williams wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 2:45 pm
You need to sort your leaks, therapeutic pressure is being lost possibly causing the hypopnea
Possibly but SleepyHead still is missing a truckload of hyponeas that the machine already flagged. It's SleepyHead not showing them and it should.
If the machine is flagging them...SH should be showing them.
Respironics machines won't lose flagging ability in the face of a big leak until the total leak is way over 100 L/min.

The large leak shown isn't the cause of SH not jiving with the machine data.
Not to mention the fact that if the shown flagging isn't accurate...then I wouldn't necessarily trust the large leak flagging either.
I see one boo boo and makes me question all the other stuff that is being shown.

I would really be curious as to what Encore Pro would show for that night in question all the way around.

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Re: Vastly different AHI from SleepyHead and DreamMapper

Post by djams » Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:42 pm

Question for my education and maybe the OP too.

What are the pressure pulse overlays on the flow chart?

I notice they're really dense at 23:10, and maybe the flow rate looks choppy over the dense area. Maybe this is where SH is making a mistake?

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Re: Vastly different AHI from SleepyHead and DreamMapper

Post by Pugsy » Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:53 pm

djams wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:42 pm
What are the pressure pulse overlays on the flow chart?

I notice they're really dense at 23:10, and maybe the flow rate looks choppy over the dense area. Maybe this is where SH is making a mistake?
Pressure pulses on the Respironics machines are nothing more than the machine sending a little puff of pressure/air to help it decide if any flow reduction it is sensing is obstructive in nature or central (clear airway) in nature. Pressure pulses may or may not end up with a flag. All depends on if the whatever reduction meets the other criteria to earn a flag.

The 23:10 stuff...it's so close to a known awake time that I would really suspect that he was still awake and the awake breathing was confusing the machine. The weird looking flow rate at the time of the large leak...really had to say much about it at this scale but the flagged large leak at that time wasn't horribly high...so I wonder if it was really a large leak. If he was in large leak territory he was barely in there and certainly not deep enough under normal circumstances to really affect the recording by the machine.

With SH not flagging the hyponeas that the machine obviously flagged...I can't help but question everything else that SH is showing.
In other words I wouldn't do much worrying about this one night. I would like to see an Encore Pro detailed report to see what it shows more out of curiosity than anything else.
At this point if this were my report there's really not much that I would do except try to work on leaks (which we do all the time anyway) and see what the next night shows.
If SleepyHead still doesn't match up with the machine's data (I am more concerned with machine than DreamMapper) then additional detective work is definitely needed.

SleepyHead doesn't do the flagging...it's the machine that does the flagging and if the machine flags something then SH is supposed to show it. The fact that SH doesn't show the truckload of hyponeas can't help me wonder what else about this night isn't reported accurately.

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Re: Vastly different AHI from SleepyHead and DreamMapper

Post by djams » Sun Oct 14, 2018 4:03 pm

Pugsy wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:53 pm
djams wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:42 pm
What are the pressure pulse overlays on the flow chart?

I notice they're really dense at 23:10, and maybe the flow rate looks choppy over the dense area. Maybe this is where SH is making a mistake?
Pressure pulses on the Respironics machines are nothing more than the machine sending a little puff of pressure/air to help it decide if any flow reduction it is sensing is obstructive in nature or central (clear airway) in nature. Pressure pulses may or may not end up with a flag. All depends on if the whatever reduction meets the other criteria to earn a flag.

The 23:10 stuff...it's so close to a known awake time that I would really suspect that he was still awake and the awake breathing was confusing the machine. The weird looking flow rate at the time of the large leak...really had to say much about it at this scale but the flagged large leak at that time wasn't horribly high...so I wonder if it was really a large leak. If he was in large leak territory he was barely in there and certainly not deep enough under normal circumstances to really affect the recording by the machine.

With SH not flagging the hyponeas that the machine obviously flagged...I can't help but question everything else that SH is showing.
In other words I wouldn't do much worrying about this one night. I would like to see an Encore Pro detailed report to see what it shows more out of curiosity than anything else.
At this point if this were my report there's really not much that I would do except try to work on leaks (which we do all the time anyway) and see what the next night shows.
If SleepyHead still doesn't match up with the machine's data (I am more concerned with machine than DreamMapper) then additional detective work is definitely needed.

SleepyHead doesn't do the flagging...it's the machine that does the flagging and if the machine flags something then SH is supposed to show it. The fact that SH doesn't show the truckload of hyponeas can't help me wonder what else about this night isn't reported accurately.
Thanks Pugsy!

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Re: Vastly different AHI from SleepyHead and DreamMapper

Post by palerider » Sun Oct 14, 2018 4:06 pm

djams wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:42 pm
Question for my education and maybe the OP too.

What are the pressure pulse overlays on the flow chart?

I notice they're really dense at 23:10, and maybe the flow rate looks choppy over the dense area. Maybe this is where SH is making a mistake?
The machine trying to figure out what kind of apnea is happening.

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Re: Vastly different AHI from SleepyHead and DreamMapper

Post by BlueDragon » Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:01 am

Try importing the SD card into a new Sleepyhead profile. Sometimes that will fix missing data problems.

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