Cheap EEGs for sleep stage detection?

My initial sleep study said I have no stage 3 sleep. I have some stage 1 & 2, and some REM, though I hardly ever remember dreams. (I haven't managed to get a copy yet of my second "CPAP titration" study.)

That said, the sleep study was done under very uncomfortable circumstances, so don't trust it al all. Nor would I trust any sleep study which connected me to lots of wires and tubes. I simply can't sleep well that way.

Anyway, I want to see if CPAP to improve stage 3 sleep, as well as OSA. I need a detection device that doesn't connect me to lots of wires.

There are EEG headsets coming out, mostly for the gaming community, but some with sleep stage detection software.

So I searched Amazon for "sleep headset egg" and found several, the cheapest of which was Muse
https://www.amazon.com/Muse-Brain-Sensi ... way&sr=8-2

The reviews at Amazon of that particular device aren't particularly encouraging - so what would be required to do the job well, at minimum?

Or is a cheap home EEG for sleep stage detection an impossible dream?

You need to spend a little time making XPAP work. Jim

buy a zeo.

I wonder where I put mine . . .
Used it a couple of months, got bored, finally put it away.
--or did I sell it?
Can't remember. Damn my old brain!

Careful. You might develop an EEG dependency.

Here you go...

https://shop.openbci.com/products/openb ... electrocap

And it is even on sale.

HoseCrusher wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 04, 2019 6:50 pm

Here you go...

https://shop.openbci.com/products/openb ... electrocap

And it is even on sale.

But if you want to be able to do anything with it - you need this:
https://shop.openbci.com/products/openb ... trocap-kit

HoseCrusher wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 04, 2019 6:50 pm

Here you go...

https://shop.openbci.com/products/openb ... electrocap

And it is even on sale.

It has a built in chin strap, and it is so attractive!

I think I recently tossed mine.

As I recall, the silly thing actually worked pretty well.

Nice, but even if you bought them both, you would still need tools to correct the problems, silver knife, fork, spoon, and saw. Add the cost up most brains wouldn't be worth the cost, at least the ones here.

Maybe we could get some remanufactured brains from China. Jim

Yeah. Medical testing that doesn't inform medical treatment or modify treatment options is not cost effective or practical. Just kinda cool.

Thanks!

ChicagoGranny: I know you weren't being serious - but I'm not interested in using a device in a mode where it provides stimulation or sound to get me to sleep, which one could conceivably become dependent on - I just want it to monitor my sleep stage.

So, is JNK the only one of you that actually tested one?

Did any of you use it to obtain nightly sleep stage data?

Elctrocap, with the added support device cost, is simply too expensive for me.

I like to look at Amazon, because I can find reviews there. None of the devices mentioned by you folks are reviewed there.

Muse 2 adds a pulse oximeter, and has marginally better reviews. But can a pulse oximeter attached to the head work? I don't have much hair left, but I have some. And most people have more - it seems unlikely to work well, because hair would block and scatter the infrared such a device needs.

It looks like most of the people who review EEG devices on Amazon are interested in these things for gaming, or as a biofeedback device to help achieve transcendental meditation. Neither of these is my interest. All I want is to distinguish the stages of sleep.

I was wrong about Muse being the cheapest one at Amazon.

Ivation Luuna Brainwave Brain Sensing Bluetooth Smart Sleep Mask is cheaper - but I don't want something that makes noise.
Ivation Luuna Brainwave Brain Sensing Bluetooth Smart Sleep Mask https://www.amazon.com/Ivation-Brainwav ... ef=sr_1_14? keywords=eeg+sleep&qid=1559746539&s=gateway&sr=8-14
NeuroSky is cheaper. But it looks like it has only two contact points. And the reviews on Amazon for this device aren't very favorable either.

Also - I don't know if anything of these devices can be set to be in silent mode, to use soley for sleep detection. That's a huge detail.

In any event, none of them but Muse 2 have enough reviews to get a feel for them - and Muse 2's reviews weren't all that favorable - sounds like it has quality control as well as instructional material problems.

My guess is that cheap home EEG devices are simply too new to have many reviews available, or to get the bugs out. If I get one, I should wait a year or two, and find something more specific to sleep stage detection.

camper wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:11 am

So, is JNK the only one of you that actually tested one?

I seem to recall that many were using them back in the day. The problem I recall is its not being so great at differentiating REM from Wake, since both dance about the same, electronically.

But don't take my word for it. Put the following into Google and read for yourself:

"zeo site:cpaptalk.com"

(Pardon my virtually saying "just google it," but it may be useful info to know that Google searches this forum much better than the built-in search here that ignores three-letter words, such as "zeo.")

I still maintain that the info from it won't do anything for you, since there is nothing you can do to change or "fix" whatever it shows you.

The Zeo product was purchased by ResMed and killed off, if I remember correctly. They push their own tech based on movement (an under the mattress sensor?) and sound (using your smart phone mic). I would have preferred the eeg tech myself.

FitBit has a decent enough sleep stage detection system in their higher end devices. They base it on heart rate and movement.
Not perfect but decent enough. It's way better than nothing. They did a lot of sleep study with real EEG comparisons to back up their claims.
Probably better than the now dead Zeo device though.

There is no good reliable and perfectly accurate device for at home sleep stage evaluation that I am aware of.
There is no "home EEG" thing that people can use that will crank out results like in lab sleep study EEG will give us.
At least nothing that comes in remotely affordable.