Newbie needs help with Humidifier on Respironics System One Auto A-Flex (60 series, model 560P)

Hi friends,

I'm a new user, just received a Respironics System One Auto A-Flex (60 series, model 560P) from a friend who it didn't work out for. Figured I'd try this machine, since it was free and seems to do what my doctor said I need. I'm a mouth breather, so I use a full face mask (Resmed AirTouch F20, non-heated tubing), and I need humidification as our Chicago apartment is dry, especially during winter.

The gist of my issue: I've been able to get all my settings in place, everything fits (no leaks as far as I can tell), and the machine seems to function as it should. Buuuuuut, after I turn it on and sleep with it for a couple of hours, I wake up with a terribly dry nose and mouth. Seems like the humidification should help with that, right? Well, when I check the unit after those couple hours, and even once after a full night using it, the water line is exactly at the same place it was when I started. Seems like the machine thinks it's delivering humidification, but I'm just not getting it. The heating plate gets warm when I turn it on, all the seals seem to be tight, so what's up? I've read the user's manual, followed instructions, and given the device a try on four different nights.

Desperate for a good night's sleep and it feels like I'm sooo close!

Thanks in advance for any advice you may have!

sean

Welcome to the forum.

What setting are you using for humidification?

Is your hose a heated hose or non heated hose?

Dry mouth can't always be fixed by adding moisture. The humidifier was designed to help hydrate the nasal cavity and not the much larger oral cavity. Mouth breathing simply dries the mouth out too much (or sometimes the dry mouth is related to medications) for the humidifier to get the mouth moist enough.

There are some things you can do though to try to maximize what the machine can give you...but we need to know what settings you are using now and what kind of hose because it affects how much moisture you are getting.

Might help to know the ambient humidity in the bedroom as well.

viewtopic/t102275/Fix-Respironics-Syste ... blems.html

He doesn't have the heated hose option on that machine, you can tell by the top of the humidifier.

The 50 series design flaw persisted into the 60 series.

Thanks Pugsy and PaleRider,

For the humidification setting, I tried it both at level 3 out of 5, and 5 out of 5. Same results, no moisture coming out.

The hose is unheated, and in the humidification settings it says, "60W, 22 (I assume hose size), and 5 (I assume humidification level)".

I don't have a hygrometer so don't know the actual humidity at home/in bedroom, but it usually feels pretty dry (radiator heat, old house, regionally we have dry air in winter). Is there another easy way to figure out the ambient humidity that you know of?

Also, I don't strictly breathe thru my mouth, but have narrow nasal passages and my septum is a little bit, nothing major, deviated. So when I sleep I kinda use both my nose and my mouth. I figured that's what full face masks were for.

About that posting above (PaleRider) -- thank you, I actually read that before I posted and think that issue may not be the same as mine, but I'm not sure yet. The 50-series has a 4-pin connector and my 60-series has a 6-pin. Also, that person said "the humidifier light started flashing, etc", but none of that has happened with mine. Mine recognizes that the humidifier is there and seems to read that it's running fine. Before opening it up and investigating the 6-pin connector, I thought I'd ask around here. Other input/ideas before I open the device up?

Appreciate your advice very much!

BarnOwl wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 03, 2019 3:49 pm

Before opening it up and investigating the 6-pin connector, I thought I'd ask around here. Other input/ideas before I open the device up?

palerider wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 03, 2019 11:27 am

The 50 series design flaw persisted into the 60 series.

While the 60 series machines are heated hose capable they do require an 80 watt power brick.
There is an upgrade kit to fix this issue.
Before going down that road let's change the humidification over to Classic mode.
The default mode uses less water.

Let's see just how much water is used when it is set to maximize moisture delivery.
You need to go into the clinical setup menu and change it from the "new humidification mode" to "Classic" mode. When in classic mode the numbers on the machine will have a C in front of them.

If you don't use much water in classic mode then there is a significant problem with the humidifier.

Go here and request the clinical/provider manual for your machine. It will explain how to get into the setup menu so you can change the humidification mode.

https://www.apneaboard.com/adjust-cpap- ... tup-manual

Isn't there a pre-heat option on the 60? or did they not catch up to the S9 until the Dreamstation?

palerider wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 03, 2019 4:15 pm

Isn't there a pre-heat option on the 60? or did they not catch up to the S9 until the Dreamstation?

I don't remember and I got the vertigo monster today and don't feel like dragging out my 760 to see. I never preheat anything anyway.

Classic mode is a real good test to see if the machine is heating up enough or not. At a setting of 5 it should use almost all the water and likely cause rain out.
Plus if it is working and cranking out moisture OP might get lucky and that amount of moisture be sufficient to deal with the dry mouth stuff. It's not totally impossible.

If it doesn't use much water....well we have a bigger problem... Time for the surgery stuff.

Pugsy wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 03, 2019 4:20 pm

palerider wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 03, 2019 4:15 pm

Isn't there a pre-heat option on the 60? or did they not catch up to the S9 until the Dreamstation?

I don't remember and I got the vertigo monster today and don't feel like dragging out my 760 to see. I never preheat anything anyway.

Classic mode is a real good test to see if the machine is heating up enough or not. At a setting of 5 it should use almost all the water and likely cause rain out.
Plus if it is working and cranking out moisture OP might get lucky and that amount of moisture be sufficient to deal with the dry mouth stuff. It's not totally impossible.

If it doesn't use much water....well we have a bigger problem... Time for the surgery stuff.

True, I just figured a couple minutes of pre-heat then feel the plate. ... or see if the chamber was steamy. I know if I pre-heat my S9 (yes, I HAVE put water in it on occasion)... it gets all steamed up inside in a few minutes. If the plate doesn't heat up during pre-heat... it's not gonna heat up ever

Aha cool, I don't have the 80W power brick, or the heated tubing, so the heated humidification (pre-heat, etc) is not an option for me unless I get those parts. However, there's an option under the settings where you can switch "System One Humidification" on or off. I thought that just meant any humidification at all, so I had it set to "ON". Now I have it set to "OFF" and the humidification level reads with a "C" before it. I'll try sleeping with it tonight on "C5" humidification instead of just "5" and report back.

Just for the record, if you have the heated tubing and correct power brick, there IS a pre-heat option on this model. Without those parts, the illuminated elements on the top of the machine only light up in white, but apparently with them, they'll light up orange for pre-heating, and blue when heated humidification is happening.

Side note: Wow, sometimes learning all the tech jargon and intricacies of these machines is like learning a new language! I may have given up by now without your help, so thank you!

BarnOwl wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:17 am

Aha cool, I don't have the 80W power brick, or the heated tubing, so the heated humidification (pre-heat, etc) is not an option for me unless I get those parts. However, there's an option under the settings where you can switch "System One Humidification" on or off. I thought that just meant any humidification at all, so I had it set to "ON". Now I have it set to "OFF" and the humidification level reads with a "C" before it. I'll try sleeping with it tonight on "C5" humidification instead of just "5" and report back.

You DO have heated humidification in the standard humidifier.. the 80w PS is only for the heated hose.

Are you sure that the pre-heat doesn't work? there's no *technical* reason for it not to.

You're absolutely right, it does have pre-heat and heated humidification, thank you. I've tried it on various levels over the past few nights, and am still unable to sleep well mostly due to dry mouth after a couple hours. It's actually worse dry mouth than when I just sleep no CPAP with a humidifier in the room. I want to stop using it for now.

I may try to get a different newer machine when I get back on a health insurance plan that would help with the cost. You think that's a good idea? One doctor recommended a ResMed AirSense™ 10 AutoSet with Heated Humidifier or a PR DreamStation Auto with Heated Humidifier. Or do you think the problems I've been having will continue no matter what machine I use?

Thanks very much for your guidance!

You may need to just add some sort of oral product designed to hydrate the mouth.
Lots of full face mask users have to do it because their mouth just gets dried out too easily for any number of reasons.
Biotene makes such products and there are others.
There's XyliMelts which is a little disc you put in your mouth and let it melt slowly through the night. I see lots of forum members recommending it.

You could also tape your mouth and see if it is for sure the mouth breathing that is the cause of the dry mouth.
Then you could decide on the best course of action.

To stop using cpap just because of dry mouth wouldn't be a solution in my book. The damage from untreated apnea would outweigh the annoyance factor of the dry mouth for me.

There is a known manufacturer's flaw in the PRS1 humidifiers. Mine stopped working at all at about year 3 and this is apparently quite common. So it could be that. The problem is not in the humidifier unit, it's in the main unit.

The other thing to look at is whether you might be mouth breathing. You should be able to see that on Sleepyhead or Oscar. But my money is on the humidifier not working.

Truly appreciate all the guidance I've gotten from all of you, thanks!

I do mouth breath when sleeping for sure, and the Xylimelts have helped that a decent amount. With Oscar/Sleepyhead I've been able to see a bit more about my patterns too. In my daily sleep data, it reads that the humidifier is disconnected, so I opened the unit up to see if there was corrosion or any melting like here: viewtopic/t102275/Fix-Respironics-Syste ... blems.html. But nothing seems to be awry. It does seem that most of the nights, that I'm getting humidification since the water level goes down (sometimes just a bit) in the humidifier chamber.

So for now, I'll keep using this machine and Xylimelts, until I can consult again with my doctor. Maybe I'll get another machine/setup when that becomes an option I can afford, or maybe the doc will advise something else. She seems quite honest and knowledgeable and has my best interests in mind.

See you back here on the forum if there are any issues, and I'll check back in to see if I can help others too