scalloped tongue and sleep apnea

I read an article in the newspaper about people who scalloped tongues generally having sleep apnea. The reason being that the tongue is to large for the mouth and falls back during sleep, hence the teeth impressions in the tongue. I looked in the mirror after reading the article and, sure enough, my tongue looked like the edges of a two crust apple pie. I have OSA and have been on the machine, with good results, for about a year and a half. I mentioned this to my doctor at my last checkup (endocrinology) and he said he never heard of such a thing. Of course, he has a blank look on his face when I say AHI too. But the point is this, this seems to be a pretty accurate predictor of OSA. I can think of hundreds of times I've been told to open up and say "ahh" and no one ever said anything. One would think the medical community would be aware of such things and whether there are other overt signs of OSA that should cause doctors to refer their patients for a sleep study. I suffered for years with this condition before a sleep study was suggested by a VA doctor just because they had ruled everything else out. I've since made all my children and every adult member of my family show me their tongues and saved the article for them to read. My 2 cents for this month.

P.S. DON'T FORGET TO VOTE!

Hey thimarine- good to see you around! I voted in Indiana already (absentee)... can't wait for the real election results!!

I had a similar A-HAH moment the first time I went to the sleep doc - she took one look at me and said that "i'm sure you have sleep apnea, even without doing the sleep study". Reason was that I have a receding chin and small mouth and airway, including narrow and highly-arched upper palate. She said for sure that my airway was getting blocked at night, and it wasn't necessarily even due to being overweight - my airway was too small to begin with.

I coulda been diagnosed already by my orthodontist when I was 12? 14? I had a special device I had to use to make my upper palate wider.... so probably it was even narrower when I was younger! I am SURE that I've had sleep apnea my entire life. I just wonder if the orthodontics helped or made it worse. I've never seen any studies discussing that. Reason it might be important is that if the upper papalate is being stretched, then I'm guessing it will cause your soft upper palate to hang even lower into your airway. Any ideas?

There was a thread a while back about dentists screening people for OSA - I think that has some merits, especially for people who (like me) very obviously have anatomical structures linked to OSA. On the other hand, if they're just going to push a dental device on the patient, and by-pass any attempts to do a PSG, then I do not support that!

As for scalloped tongue - first time I hear about it. I did a quick search online, and it seem to also be related to teeth grinding and/or continuous clenching of the teeth. I've read that a lot of people have had their teeth grinding stop once they started on CPAP - so probably you're right and these should be added to the list of OSA symptoms!!

BTW there are some lines of thinking that say OSA is hereditary (and that especially makes sense if you consider anatomical causes of OSA). When you talk to your family, you should also listen to see if they have complaints about unresolved tireness, general achiness and pain, daytime sleepiness, falling asleep at the wheel, falling asleep in front of the TV, snoring, ..... You can save them years of damage if they get diagnosed early.

thimarine - by the way, how IS everything going? Are you starting to feel better ? Have you noticed any improvements? I know your "sleep doc" has not been very helpful to you throughout this process...

Echo--- Thank you for your reply and concern. I am doing great on cpap. My AHI seldom goes over 0.8 and generally is around 0.4 to 0.5. I've had some 0 nights. I had the VA print out the results from my card. They also gave me a new card. I don't have a sleep doc. I see a tech once every 6 mos. The VA just gave me my stuff. You guys are my sleep doctor. You know, all the symptoms you mentioned are symptoms I mentioned to the VA doctors at all the clinics where I have been treated. I was discharged from the service in 1974. They told me the tiredness, the achiness, the depression, were all tied to PTSD. Then, one day, a young resident said "have you ever had a sleep study'? Two years later, the VA gave me one, a year later I got my machine and, now here we are. The point you make is a good one. I try to tell people who complain about being tired all the time to ask their doctors for a PSG. We really are an underdiagnosed and misunderstood group.

I know I've said this before, but it bears repeating. This board has literally been a life saver for me. I appreciate all the help I've received. My cholesterol is down, triglycerides down, sugar down, you name it, and my numbers have improved. But, I stuck with the therapy because of the help and encouragement from the folks on this forum.

Thanks for voting. No matter how you voted, it's important. Too many people gave too much to preserve that right. To not exercise the right is a shame.

Thanks again and thanks for your concern.

Semper Fi!

thimarine wrote:Echo--- Thank you for your reply and concern. I am doing great on cpap. My AHI seldom goes over 0.8 and generally is around 0.4 to 0.5. I've had some 0 nights. I had the VA print out the results from my card. They also gave me a new card. I don't have a sleep doc. I see a tech once every 6 mos. The VA just gave me my stuff.

Wow, that's great!!!!!!
I hadn't realized that you didn't even see a sleep doc at the VA! Yowser. Vets deserve much better than this!!!!

thimarine wrote: I know I've said this before, but it bears repeating. This board has literally been a life saver for me. I appreciate all the help I've received. My cholesterol is down, triglycerides down, sugar down, you name it, and my numbers have improved. But, I stuck with the therapy because of the help and encouragement from the folks on this forum.

Don't be bashful - you should really thank yourself! Many beginners are overwhelmed and left in the dark, just like you were, but for one reason or another can't stick to the treatment ir make it work (whether they make it to this forum or not). It takes great attitude to make your therapy work for you, and to stick with it in the beginning even though it's difficult --- don't underestimate yours! Three cheers for yourself

I'm picturing a pallet stack of Autopaps at Wally World, a mirror above it with the caption:
GOT CPAP?