Philips Respironics Launches BiPAP autoSV Advanced Sleep Sys

dsm wrote:mdboze
You mention an RS232 port on your Bipap Auto SV advanced.

I haven't seen anything like that on the recent models does it mention it in the manual ?
Reason I ask is it seems so unlike Respironics to add RS232 to a model that hasn't had it for many years ?

Thanks

DSM

DSM
Regarding the RS232 interface on the Respironics BiPAP autoSV Advanced, The previous model also had it.
In the previous model BiPAP autoSV - see Provider Manual Section 4.4 REAR PANEL (or user manual REAR PANEL section)

"The Rear Panel Contains the following:
* A communications connector that accepts the Respironics Communications Cable for computer and external communications, or a remote alarm, when available.
"
The same thing is mentioned in the BiPAP_autoSV_Advanced_User_Manual, section "4.2.5 Rear Panel" here:
http://bipapautosvadvanced.respironics. ... Manual.pdf

Here is a picture of that Communications port on my BiPAP autoSV Advanced. It has the same 3 connections as the BiPAP autoSV


This connection is a 7 pin round receptacle:
RS232 signal will use at least 3 or 5 of the pins (Ground, Transmit, Receive, possibly 2 more pins used for handshaking RTS, CTS)
and 2 pins for the remote alarm (Ground, on/off)

We know it is RS232 because it is mentioned in the Respironics "BiPap autoSV Sleep Therapy Setup Guide"
Found here: http://www.apneaboard.com/manuals2/REMs ... pGuide.pdf
The 2nd page of the guide mentions connecting this port to the PC with a "USB to Serial Adapter".
And it mentions needing a "DB9 to DB9 Cable 72""
RS232 uses a 9 pin DB9 connection. A RS232 cable is also known as a serial cable.

The BiPAP unit requires a Respironics adapter cable "SleepLink™ Set 1007492
This... I plan to build a RS232 adapter myself that can connect to this 7 pin round receptacle in the back of the unit.
about 10 min, with my multimeter to determine what pins are used for what.

But... I will still need the software to run on my PC to monitor everything. I think the software to log the data is called: "PC Direct".
From the FAQ: http://bipapautosv.respironics.com/faq.aspx
Will BiPAP autoSV utilize PC Direct with the “Plug n Play”?
Yes, the BiPAP autoSV works plug and play with PC direct v1.5.

I'm not sure if the "Encore Pro" software can log the data off that port, or just with a Card reader.
Anyone know where to get the "PC Direct" software? I think I need a login ID for My.Resironics.com

mdboze & banned,

The most trecent settings are looking better but I must admit I would be *very* reluctant to *ever* see my epap set below 9 on a Bipap Auto SV even if it is being auto titrated (EpapMin set below EpapMax).

One characteristic of the Bipaps I have not dwelt on here, is that the CMs numbers are typically overstated by approx 1 CMs.

By this I am saying that measued with a dial manometer, the pressure at the mask is typically 1 CMs below what the LCD on the machine says. Whereas, the Vpap Adapt SV is accurate at both the mask & machine (difference is because the vpap adapt sv samples pressure at the mask).

So, when the Bipap Auto SV says 9 CMs it is pretty well for sure the actual pressure is 8. 1 CMs can be a big difference when playing around down in the epap zone. I am offering caution on trusting the epap titration at this earlyb stage. I'd get the other values (base epap, ipap & SV PS support) working smoothly 1st & then start exploring how low I can set EpapMin below EpapMax & trust it. My real point here is am instinctly nervous at the thought of epap being set so low - even if it will adjust up if OSA events are detected.

Good luck

DSM

dsm wrote:mdboze & banned,
The most trecent settings are looking better but I must admit I would be *very* reluctant to *ever* see my epap set below 9 even if it is being auti titrated.

I agree with you dsm,

Let's get Mdboze back to 'feeling' normal (which is probably EPAP Min 7, EPAP Max 12, PS Min 7, and PS Max 15).

Then I would ask Mdboze to trial EPAP Min 9, EPAP Max 12, PS Min 5, and PS Max 15. These settings would raise his EPAP mildly while maintaining his 'IPAP Min' at 14cm.

Banned

Thanks...

Banned wrote:

dsm wrote:mdboze & banned,
The most trecent settings are looking better but I must admit I would be *very* reluctant to *ever* see my epap set below 9 even if it is being auti titrated.

I agree with you dsm,

Let's get Mdboze back to 'feeling' normal (which is probably EPAP Min 7, EPAP Max 12, PS Min 7, and PS Max 15).

Then I would ask Mdboze to trial EPAP Min 9, EPAP Max 12, PS Min 5, and PS Max 15. These settings would raise his EPAP mildly while maintaining his 'IPAP Min' at 14cm.

Banned

Banned, dsm,

My concern here is that with EPAP Max 12 + PS Max 15 = 27cm potential for an event.
I'll have the same problem as JohnBFisher

JohnBFisher wrote: The fact is that it swings quite strongly in an effort to be certain I breathe properly.

At least my
PRES Max = 23 setting should stop it there.

Well.. good night all.. I'll give it a try.

mdboze wrote:The BiPAP unit requires a Respironics adapter cable "SleepLink™ Set 1007492
This... I plan to build a RS232 adapter myself that can connect to this 7 pin round receptacle in the back of the unit.
about 10 min, with my multimeter to determine what pins are used for what.

Y'know, I've often wondered about that. If the 7-pin communications connector and the Sleeplink had the same pinout, then why bother with the Sleeplink card at all? It seems like it would be a weak link in the connection (although I can say that in practice, it's not).

Alternatively, it would seem to me that the 7-pin connector is/may be used for inputting data, like oximetry, for use in a yet undisclosed algorithm.

An interesting experiment would be to send in ~0.6-1.0 DC Volts (a typical oximetry signal) to pins on the communications port that don't seem to be doing anything and see what happens to machine response.

BTW I have the Part# for the Main PCA Board if that one goes a little awry.

Muffy

mdboze

Well dang me - yes my Bipap Auto does have that connector & I never twigged (or saw ) that it was a serial port

Muffy
I have one of the sleep study cards because who ever sold me the Bipap sent it along with it but I have always believed I was missing a cable to use it. Will dig it out & take another look.



Amazing what we can learn from each other - a serial port there all this time & I never knew

DSM

The addition of BiFlex is welcomed in my option. The abrupt IPAP to EPAP transitions where one of the hardest things that I found with the old autoSV.

I heard back from my DME about my settings:

Based on a VPAP AutoSV used in the sleep study, the perscription was for:
Pressure support Max 23,
Pressure support Min 12,
and a EPAP of 7
and 7cm PS

My insistence on wanting the Respironics BiPap AutoSV Advanced, was troublesome for them. They wanted me to do another sleep study with the machine to accurately get the settings. I asked if the numbers could be translated from the previous sleep study results that used the VPAP Resmed AutoSV. They contacted the Respironics Rep who referenced some "look up table" (resmed to respironics?); and I ended up with theses settings translated from the above prescription:

PRES Max: 23cm
EPAP Max:12 - EPAP Min:12
PS Max: 7 -----PS Min:7
FLEX: 2
BPM: Auto

By the way, last night was better & I felt good today. Did have mask leak troubles on & off until 4am, when my wife woke me up (loud leak). Leaked probably because the new higher pressure settings kicked in to cover a central. I tightened the straps, fixed the leak and was good for the rest of the night. Will try again with same settings tonight of EPAP Min 7, EPAP Max 12, PS Min 7, and PS Max 15.

Banned wrote: Then I would ask Mdboze to trial EPAP Min 9, EPAP Max 12, PS Min 5, and PS Max 15. These settings would raise his EPAP mildly while maintaining his 'IPAP Min' at 14cm.

Banned

I may try those settings after a few nights os using the current settings.
thanks all.

Also, I'll keep you updated on my progress with the RS232 interface.

WOW, so much for your DME!

At least they gave the right machine at your insistence.

It appears that you do ok with EPAP 7cm. Conversely, it appears that you do well with IPAP 14cm .

You should strive to maintain IPAP 14cm with your machine.

Your future trial of EPAP Min 9, EPAP Max 12, PS Min 5, and PS Max 12 will be an experiment to raise EPAP 7 to EPAP 9. Obviously, to get to EPAP Min 9 while maintaining IPAP 14, you will need to wing the other dials per the aforementioned (Note: EPAP Min 9 + PS Min 5 = IPAP 14cm).

Banned

I had a Respironics Rep (RRT,RPSGT as well) tell me that the conversion table between Respironics and Resmed (or vice versa) were not all the great or accurate.

dsm wrote:Well dang me - yes my Bipap Auto does have that connector & I never twigged (or saw ) that it was a serial port

Amazing what we can learn from each other - a serial port there all this time & I never knew

DSM

I started to look into how to connect to the communications port on the Respironics BiPAP AutoSV Advanced and have identified the connector used on the communications port:
Model # KMDX7S-S
Manufacture: KYCON
Here is the Datasheet for that connector can be found at kycon.com/Pub_Eng_Draw/KMDX-xS-S.pdf
(the one they use in on the far right, a 7 pin round receptacle)

To connect to this receptacle, I found the correct cable side plug:
Model # KMDLAX-7P
Manufacture: KYCON
Datasheet:
http://domino2.kycon.com/Pub_Eng_Draw/KMDLAX-xP.pdf

Both of these parts can be ordered from this online catalog: (a popular electronics part distributor)
http://mouser.com/catalog/catalogUSD/641/1325.pdf

Almost done identifying all the pins (i.e. pin 6 is the ground pin )

Does anyone know if the smart card reader uses the same 7pin round connector ?

mdboze wrote:Anyone have any tips for using a Nasal Pillow with a BiPap to stop mouth leaks ?

Sure do.

Tape.

LINKS to: Mouth leaks - Air Leaks - Tape - DIY Guard
viewtopic.php?t=8011

In fact, before I tried to tweak settings much, other than the obvious one(s) the DME got wrong or mixed up, I'd work first on putting a stop to mouth air leaks if not using a Full Face mask.

You're doing a great job working on your treatment, mdboze.

Banned wrote:

dsm wrote:mdboze & banned,
The most trecent settings are looking better but I must admit I would be *very* reluctant to *ever* see my epap set below 9 even if it is being auti titrated.

I agree with you dsm,

Let's get Mdboze back to 'feeling' normal (which is probably EPAP Min 7, EPAP Max 12, PS Min 7, and PS Max 15).

Then I would ask Mdboze to trial EPAP Min 9, EPAP Max 12, PS Min 5, and PS Max 15. These settings would raise his EPAP mildly while maintaining his 'IPAP Min' at 14cm.

Banned

Banned:
On my BiPAP AutoSV Advanced, I tried the settings you suggested: EPAP Min 9, EPAP Max 12, PS Min 5, but with PS Max 13 instead of 15; Since my total pressure Max is set at 23cm, I set PS max = 13, (EPAP Min 9 + PS Max 13 = 22cm), I probably should have set it to 14, so I could at least reach the max pressure if needed while EPAP was at its min 9.

Morning Report:
I slept though the night and feel ok. I just wish I could have slept longer, but its my turn to get up with our 3 year-old and he woke up at 6am. Hmm-mm is there a setting in the machine for that ? lol.
Overall these settings worked ok; I woke up a few times; felt uncomfortable when dozing off every time, as if I was not getting enough air. Or if I held my breath, I didn't feel like it helped "strongly enough", fast enough giving me a slight urge to gasp for air. Possibly this is due to the IPAP-EPAP differece being as low as 5; causing it to take a few auto-breaths to ramp up, to get me the air I needed at a comfortable level.

I also determined that PS Max should not be above 15cm. From the BiPap autoSV reference guide, tritation protocol section: it says to stop increasing IPAP max if it is greater than 15mc above EPAP.
The "PS" setting is the pressure difference from inhalation to exhalation (IPAP to EPAP). They probably know that greater than a 15 cm difference would be too uncomfortable or somehow bad for you.

I just realized that since the sleep study, I've lost about 10 pounds (now at 180, down from 190 lbs); With less soft tissue (ie. fat) to cause OSAs, this is probably why a EPAP Min = 7 works for me; possibly lower EPAP Min setting could work as well, while leaving the EPAP max =12 to let it auto-titrate if needed.
(from document 1032940_BiPAPautoSV_RefGd_EnglishA4.pdf)

Learning more about this every day.

mdboze wrote:I tried the settings you suggested: EPAP Min 9, EPAP Max 12, PS Min 5, but with PS Max 13 instead of 15; Since my total pressure Max is set at 23cm, I set PS max = 13, (EPAP Min 9 + PS Max 13 = 22cm), I probably should have set it to 14, so I could at least reach the max pressure if needed while EPAP was at its min 9.

8 and 6, tonite?

Banned

Banned wrote:

mdboze wrote:I tried the settings you suggested: EPAP Min 9, EPAP Max 12, PS Min 5, but with PS Max 13 instead of 15; Since my total pressure Max is set at 23cm, I set PS max = 13, (EPAP Min 9 + PS Max 13 = 22cm), I probably should have set it to 14, so I could at least reach the max pressure if needed while EPAP was at its min 9.

8 and 6, tonite?

Banned

EPAP min:8
PS Min:6
Sounds like a plan for tonight; Fine tuning the settings.

I look forward to being able to read the data, so I will know for sure, the difference the setting changes are making. Rather than just on how I feel during the night, and the next day. I'm working on getting the Encore Pro software now.