My apologies if this is something that is discussed a lot, I have little luck with the search on here so I thought I would ask it again.
I have been on my Swift for about a week and CPAP for just about a month now. Things went fine for the first few weeks, I assume I was just so tired I could sleep through everything. When I got my Swift I was sleeping better again since its tons more comfortable. Now I have been noticing that I am waking about 3 AM every morning and have difficulties falling asleep.
I have a few theories on this, just wanted to see if anyone has any experience.
Theory 1. I am used to getting 7 hours of sleep with a very low efficiency due to the Apnea. Now that my sleep efficiency is better I am waking up when my body says I have my old 7 hours. Once I wake up I have problems getting back to sleep. Id love my theory to be true, but as soon as I take my mask off, I am able to go right back to sleep.
Theory 2. I am very tired when I go to sleep initially so I have no problem getting to sleep. By 3 am I am more rested, and I am hitting a point in my sleep that is waking me up, possibly an Apnea event that my pressure is not preventing due to that level of sleep not being reached during my study? After I wake up I am not as tired so just dealing with the pressure and having a mask on is preventing my sleep.
The second theory makes more sense to me. I had come up with two possible solutions that I was looking for feedback on.
1. Try sleep medication short term. Hopefully this would allow my body to adjust to CPAP more and force it to get used to getting better sleep so eventually I could sleep better without it. This seems a little far fetched but may help.
2. Attempt to get put on an Auto machine. This would hopefully cut out what ever is waking me up if that is what happening. Also, if I did wake up, I would think the pressure would be lower than what I am currently using on my CPAP so it would be easier to fall asleep. I am not terribly familiar with Autopaps so I could be wrong in that guess.
This has turned into more of a question that I thought it would so sorry for the long post. Anyone with any comments, I would appreciate your feedback.
Apnea@22
Waking up at 3am every night
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Hey, A.
Well, the good news is, sounds like your energy level is getting better, as is the quality of your sleep. The bad news is, I spent almost six months with your "syndrome," although worse. I would wake up at the same three times every night, 1:30 AM, 3:30 and and 5:30. It was horrible. At first, it wasn't a problem since my energy level was so improved that even with the three quick awakenings, it didn't matter. But as the months rolled on, it did become a problem, which was what led me to see if I really did need the machine or not, which we all know how this has ended.
Your problem, though, is a bit different in that you can't go back to sleep unless you remove your mask? That one is a bit puzzling to me. Now, an auto machine, I can't see, making a difference. There is a possibility, and I really mean a possibility, that perhaps you are experiencing your events at that time every morning and you are waking up after them? Does your machine have software to monitor that theory? Could there be something that wakes you up unrelated to the therapy at 3 AM, like maybe a neighbor's car going to or from work, or a dog that barks? It has been said that some people can awaken FROM auto machines changing pressures, although I don't know how true that is. I read it here on the site, though. So I don't know if that would be an answer to this one.
You COULD try to take something that helps you sustain sleep, such as either an OTC sleep aid or a prescription, for a short period of time, but then you delve into a whole new realm of possible complications. You haven't been on the therapy too long, so my advice would be to just give it a couple of weeks and see if it continues. If it does, then you may need to dig further to try to come up with what is going on. I was never able to, though. Good luck.
Well, the good news is, sounds like your energy level is getting better, as is the quality of your sleep. The bad news is, I spent almost six months with your "syndrome," although worse. I would wake up at the same three times every night, 1:30 AM, 3:30 and and 5:30. It was horrible. At first, it wasn't a problem since my energy level was so improved that even with the three quick awakenings, it didn't matter. But as the months rolled on, it did become a problem, which was what led me to see if I really did need the machine or not, which we all know how this has ended.
Your problem, though, is a bit different in that you can't go back to sleep unless you remove your mask? That one is a bit puzzling to me. Now, an auto machine, I can't see, making a difference. There is a possibility, and I really mean a possibility, that perhaps you are experiencing your events at that time every morning and you are waking up after them? Does your machine have software to monitor that theory? Could there be something that wakes you up unrelated to the therapy at 3 AM, like maybe a neighbor's car going to or from work, or a dog that barks? It has been said that some people can awaken FROM auto machines changing pressures, although I don't know how true that is. I read it here on the site, though. So I don't know if that would be an answer to this one.
You COULD try to take something that helps you sustain sleep, such as either an OTC sleep aid or a prescription, for a short period of time, but then you delve into a whole new realm of possible complications. You haven't been on the therapy too long, so my advice would be to just give it a couple of weeks and see if it continues. If it does, then you may need to dig further to try to come up with what is going on. I was never able to, though. Good luck.
L o R i
Theory 1 is what I beleive happened to me. It did take some time before I finally got past the nightly wake up point. Now its just a quick mask adjust and back to sleep.
Before therapy we used to have a problem with our dog waking up barking around 3 every night. Couldn't figure out what her problem was until one night I woke up hearing a telephone ring. Turns out my stepdaughter had hooked her phone into our second line which was only used for the computer and the satellite dish then. Sure enough the satellite was dialling in to get data every night at 3.
Before therapy we used to have a problem with our dog waking up barking around 3 every night. Couldn't figure out what her problem was until one night I woke up hearing a telephone ring. Turns out my stepdaughter had hooked her phone into our second line which was only used for the computer and the satellite dish then. Sure enough the satellite was dialling in to get data every night at 3.
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Sleepless on LI
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Like I said, maybe something totally unrelated to therapy, let's hope.mikemoran wrote:Theory 1 is what I beleive happened to me. It did take some time before I finally got past the nightly wake up point. Now its just a quick mask adjust and back to sleep.
Before therapy we used to have a problem with our dog waking up barking around 3 every night. Couldn't figure out what her problem was until one night I woke up hearing a telephone ring. Turns out my stepdaughter had hooked her phone into our second line which was only used for the computer and the satellite dish then. Sure enough the satellite was dialling in to get data every night at 3.
L o R i
Well, taking of my mask just allows me to be more comfortable thus lets me fall back asleep. At least last night when I woke up, I was very out of breath. When I layed down to go to sleep I had troble with one of my nostrils being clogged but the humidifier cleared that up after a few minutes. Not sure if it got clogged during the night and cut down my ability to breath but when I woke up I did not feel like I could get caught up breathing. So I took off my mask with the intent of putting it back on, but fell asleep too soon and wasnt able to
Similiar issues the other nights but cant recall if I was out of breath as much. I do not have an Auto pap so it isnt that waking me up. I am not sure what it is, I am keeping an eye out for what may be waking me up, but it seems to be pretty much the same time each night, while not being the EXACT same time each night. Thanks for you input, wasn't sure if I was just losing it or something.
Something that has been bugging me is the fact that I have more energy during the day, but I am still passing out as soon as I get home from work like I used to. It seems like I have energy, though not tons yet, but only in a condensed time frame. I guess the more I have good nights the better I will be.
On a different note, I read someplace that resmed slightly changed the Swift at some point and the newer version was quieter, I had not read it here so I don't know how much I believe it, but that would explain why some people say they feel it is quiet while others like myself feel it is quite loud. I have adopted the use of earplugs which is good, but I was just wondering if maybe I should push for a newer one as I may have been given something from old stock and it would help. Any thoughts or rumors of this being true?
Apnea@22
Similiar issues the other nights but cant recall if I was out of breath as much. I do not have an Auto pap so it isnt that waking me up. I am not sure what it is, I am keeping an eye out for what may be waking me up, but it seems to be pretty much the same time each night, while not being the EXACT same time each night. Thanks for you input, wasn't sure if I was just losing it or something.
Something that has been bugging me is the fact that I have more energy during the day, but I am still passing out as soon as I get home from work like I used to. It seems like I have energy, though not tons yet, but only in a condensed time frame. I guess the more I have good nights the better I will be.
On a different note, I read someplace that resmed slightly changed the Swift at some point and the newer version was quieter, I had not read it here so I don't know how much I believe it, but that would explain why some people say they feel it is quiet while others like myself feel it is quite loud. I have adopted the use of earplugs which is good, but I was just wondering if maybe I should push for a newer one as I may have been given something from old stock and it would help. Any thoughts or rumors of this being true?
Apnea@22
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A,
Here's a suggestion. If you have a recorder, put it on tonight and see if you pick up any sounds on it at about the time you normally wake up. Maybe you will hear a dog bark or a car engine or door make the noise loud enough to wake you up - or you may hear yourself with an event gasp for air. But, then again, over the noise of the Swift...
If you're waking up out of breath, I may be right when I say that maybe 3 AM is a time you seem to experience an event that wakes you up. If only our therapies could totally eliminate 100% of the events every night, that would not be a problem. But if you're like everyone else, you are still having some events at night and maybe you just have a habit of having it at this hour. They say the early morning hours are supposedly known to be the most "popular" time for events to take place, which is all the more reason to keep the mask on at those times, too.
I never minded the noise the Swift made, or any other mask, for that matter, so I am not the person to talk to over anxiety with noisy masks. I guess after years of listening to my husband's snores, it was nice to have something blocking it out. And, now that I'm off the machine, I am pushing HIM to allow me to hook him up for just one night so I can prove to him what I am strongly suspecting, that he has OSA. OMG, you should hear this man. But nothing I say to him will get him to agree. He feels great, he's thin, in shape and said he doesn't need the treatment. Could he be more wrong??? He's worried about his cholesterol now which was 230, and I told him he's a fool if he worries about that and doesn't address the fact that he may have OSA. But I'm not giving up...maybe I'll tape record him!!!
Here's a suggestion. If you have a recorder, put it on tonight and see if you pick up any sounds on it at about the time you normally wake up. Maybe you will hear a dog bark or a car engine or door make the noise loud enough to wake you up - or you may hear yourself with an event gasp for air. But, then again, over the noise of the Swift...
If you're waking up out of breath, I may be right when I say that maybe 3 AM is a time you seem to experience an event that wakes you up. If only our therapies could totally eliminate 100% of the events every night, that would not be a problem. But if you're like everyone else, you are still having some events at night and maybe you just have a habit of having it at this hour. They say the early morning hours are supposedly known to be the most "popular" time for events to take place, which is all the more reason to keep the mask on at those times, too.
I never minded the noise the Swift made, or any other mask, for that matter, so I am not the person to talk to over anxiety with noisy masks. I guess after years of listening to my husband's snores, it was nice to have something blocking it out. And, now that I'm off the machine, I am pushing HIM to allow me to hook him up for just one night so I can prove to him what I am strongly suspecting, that he has OSA. OMG, you should hear this man. But nothing I say to him will get him to agree. He feels great, he's thin, in shape and said he doesn't need the treatment. Could he be more wrong??? He's worried about his cholesterol now which was 230, and I told him he's a fool if he worries about that and doesn't address the fact that he may have OSA. But I'm not giving up...maybe I'll tape record him!!!
L o R i
Apneaat22,
Regarding your apologies about asking questions that may have answers available through a search--
As a newbie here myself, and as a long-term user of another forum, I'd like to offer a humble opinion.
It's great and convenient to be able to search for answers to FAQ's. But, when one is new to the subject area of a forum (in this case, Sleep Apnea and/or CPAP) it's often difficult to determine what's a FAQ and what's a rare question.
As a veteran in my other forum, I do know how tiring it can become to answer the same questions and deal with the same issues from "newbies" with each new membership. BUT, for those of us who come to a forum seeking not only information, but perhaps a sense of personal connection, as well, being able to ask questions and "muddle through" with others in search of our answers is one way of connecting. Perhaps a more personal way than by referring to a link that maybe is written by former members who are no longer here.
I sometimes will look for information by searching. Sometimes, that's frustrating if I don't know the exact phrase to enter. If it's support I'm looking for, though, versus just black/white information, then I go ahead and put my question out there.
Just a thought and opinion I've been wanting to spout out for awhile--your post reminded me.
Take care and welcome!
Allen
Regarding your apologies about asking questions that may have answers available through a search--
As a newbie here myself, and as a long-term user of another forum, I'd like to offer a humble opinion.
It's great and convenient to be able to search for answers to FAQ's. But, when one is new to the subject area of a forum (in this case, Sleep Apnea and/or CPAP) it's often difficult to determine what's a FAQ and what's a rare question.
As a veteran in my other forum, I do know how tiring it can become to answer the same questions and deal with the same issues from "newbies" with each new membership. BUT, for those of us who come to a forum seeking not only information, but perhaps a sense of personal connection, as well, being able to ask questions and "muddle through" with others in search of our answers is one way of connecting. Perhaps a more personal way than by referring to a link that maybe is written by former members who are no longer here.
I sometimes will look for information by searching. Sometimes, that's frustrating if I don't know the exact phrase to enter. If it's support I'm looking for, though, versus just black/white information, then I go ahead and put my question out there.
Just a thought and opinion I've been wanting to spout out for awhile--your post reminded me.
Take care and welcome!
Allen
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Allen,
Great post. You are so right about looking to make a personal connection and you don't get that by searching the FAQs or the Internet. I don't think anyone is bothered (maybe SOME are) by answering the same questions over and over when newcomers arrive to the site; and those who are need not answer. We all just have to remember how we personally felt when we were in their shoes and treat them how we wanted AND WERE treated. I say, ask away.
Great post. You are so right about looking to make a personal connection and you don't get that by searching the FAQs or the Internet. I don't think anyone is bothered (maybe SOME are) by answering the same questions over and over when newcomers arrive to the site; and those who are need not answer. We all just have to remember how we personally felt when we were in their shoes and treat them how we wanted AND WERE treated. I say, ask away.
L o R i
You caught me, I think hearing "we understand where your coming from" is much more helpful than just the answer
Thank you both for your comments.
Well another night has passed and I woke up again at 2:30. I went a different path though, and had turned up my ramp pressure to 7, up from 5, so I could still breath and hit that when I woke up. Out like a light. Woke up again around 4:30 and hit it again and out again. Worked a lot better. If I woke up 45 minutes after I hit it, I would thing the pressue raise was waking me up but it was quite a bit later.
I am remembering back to both of my studies, and like you said the later half was the worst. When I had my initial study, I pulled off one of the sensors by mistake so the guy had to wake me up around 1am and he had said they really didn't see much evidence other than some loud snoring. When I woke up in the morning he said my second half was well more than enough to prove I had a problem so it seems like it starts up later in the night. The same was found when I went in my second time on the CPAP (this is being titrated right?). So all I can guess is I am having an issue around then and since I cannot breath out of my mouth like my body is used to doing when my throat closes, I wake up all of the way, rather than just a little. This was something I noticed the first time I used the CPAP.
I will do what you suggest about trying to record just in case.
If my above guess is correct, would that indicate I need a higher pressure? I am curious about this because the technician that did my study said he only took samples of my reaction up to 11 cm and thats what they put me on. Wouldn't going higher than neccissary to get some samples have been good to make sure 11 wasn't the highest pressue I needed? This is why I was going to try to get an AutoPap.
BTW, used the mask all night for the first time in a few days, and yeah it really makes a huge difference. Especially if I don't start having issuse until after I take off the mask. Yesterday the thought of getting up almost made me cry, today I am ready to take on the day. I want to want to use my mask all night
Apnea@22
Thank you both for your comments.
Well another night has passed and I woke up again at 2:30. I went a different path though, and had turned up my ramp pressure to 7, up from 5, so I could still breath and hit that when I woke up. Out like a light. Woke up again around 4:30 and hit it again and out again. Worked a lot better. If I woke up 45 minutes after I hit it, I would thing the pressue raise was waking me up but it was quite a bit later.
I am remembering back to both of my studies, and like you said the later half was the worst. When I had my initial study, I pulled off one of the sensors by mistake so the guy had to wake me up around 1am and he had said they really didn't see much evidence other than some loud snoring. When I woke up in the morning he said my second half was well more than enough to prove I had a problem so it seems like it starts up later in the night. The same was found when I went in my second time on the CPAP (this is being titrated right?). So all I can guess is I am having an issue around then and since I cannot breath out of my mouth like my body is used to doing when my throat closes, I wake up all of the way, rather than just a little. This was something I noticed the first time I used the CPAP.
I will do what you suggest about trying to record just in case.
If my above guess is correct, would that indicate I need a higher pressure? I am curious about this because the technician that did my study said he only took samples of my reaction up to 11 cm and thats what they put me on. Wouldn't going higher than neccissary to get some samples have been good to make sure 11 wasn't the highest pressue I needed? This is why I was going to try to get an AutoPap.
BTW, used the mask all night for the first time in a few days, and yeah it really makes a huge difference. Especially if I don't start having issuse until after I take off the mask. Yesterday the thought of getting up almost made me cry, today I am ready to take on the day. I want to want to use my mask all night
Apnea@22
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Sleepless on LI
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A,
Glad to hear your night last night was so much better, even with the two disturbances. It really does sound like you're waking up after an episode. There is no real way to tell if you don't have a machine capable of recording your events, though, so sometimes you just have to go with the flow.
My suggestion? If your insurance company will pay for it, see if you can get them to give you an auto. You can tell them just what you explained here, that at your study they had trouble getting data on you since you didn't sleep well enough and that you may need the auto in case you need a higher pressure than the 11. You can also mention that you may be having a slight compliance issue and you feel if you could have the machine remain on a lower pressure when not needed, it may help you to be more compliant.
Perhaps some others can step in here and offer perhaps some stronger statements of persuasion to offer the doctor to change the prescription for an auto, or suggest the auto (don't know if you really need a prescription, although my DME asked for it). It can't hurt to have the auto option in any way. And if you get the right machine, you can get one with software capabilities so you will be able to tell what is going on when you wake up if it happens to coincide with your events.
In any event, thank God you feel well, wake-ups and all, and enjoy the day with your new found energy. Therapy is a beautiful thing once you start reaping all the benefits. Makes you glad you were diagnosed, eh? You had something fixable that really improved your quality of life, or maybe gave you the ability to get your life back.
Glad to hear your night last night was so much better, even with the two disturbances. It really does sound like you're waking up after an episode. There is no real way to tell if you don't have a machine capable of recording your events, though, so sometimes you just have to go with the flow.
My suggestion? If your insurance company will pay for it, see if you can get them to give you an auto. You can tell them just what you explained here, that at your study they had trouble getting data on you since you didn't sleep well enough and that you may need the auto in case you need a higher pressure than the 11. You can also mention that you may be having a slight compliance issue and you feel if you could have the machine remain on a lower pressure when not needed, it may help you to be more compliant.
Perhaps some others can step in here and offer perhaps some stronger statements of persuasion to offer the doctor to change the prescription for an auto, or suggest the auto (don't know if you really need a prescription, although my DME asked for it). It can't hurt to have the auto option in any way. And if you get the right machine, you can get one with software capabilities so you will be able to tell what is going on when you wake up if it happens to coincide with your events.
In any event, thank God you feel well, wake-ups and all, and enjoy the day with your new found energy. Therapy is a beautiful thing once you start reaping all the benefits. Makes you glad you were diagnosed, eh? You had something fixable that really improved your quality of life, or maybe gave you the ability to get your life back.
L o R i
Lori,
Yeah the Auto was the route I was going to try to go down. Where I am at a loss is who has to do that? I spoke with my DME yesterday and mentioned it and she said it sounded like a good idea but didn't seem like she could just do it. I have trouble getting in touch with my current sleep doctor, but I assume he would be the one to put it in motion. I wasn't sure if I am supposed to contact my insurance for it?
I am working on getting in touch with my doctor to try to get things going. As I know very little about the Autos, is there anyone that is better? I assumed I would go for the Remstar Auto CFlex since I am used to the Remstar plus cflex system right now. I wasn't sure if there was something else that would be better that someone could recommend that I could justify getting instead. One thing I have on my mind is I have to do overseas travel quite often and the Remstar isnt the smallest unit. I wasn't sure if one of the Resmed ones might be a better one for me to go for. Any suggestions?
Thanks as always
Adam
Yeah the Auto was the route I was going to try to go down. Where I am at a loss is who has to do that? I spoke with my DME yesterday and mentioned it and she said it sounded like a good idea but didn't seem like she could just do it. I have trouble getting in touch with my current sleep doctor, but I assume he would be the one to put it in motion. I wasn't sure if I am supposed to contact my insurance for it?
I am working on getting in touch with my doctor to try to get things going. As I know very little about the Autos, is there anyone that is better? I assumed I would go for the Remstar Auto CFlex since I am used to the Remstar plus cflex system right now. I wasn't sure if there was something else that would be better that someone could recommend that I could justify getting instead. One thing I have on my mind is I have to do overseas travel quite often and the Remstar isnt the smallest unit. I wasn't sure if one of the Resmed ones might be a better one for me to go for. Any suggestions?
Thanks as always
Adam
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Colorado Jan
I don't know anything about the Resmed unit that is small, but I do know the Puritan Bennett 420 series are REALLY small and light machines. I think the machine PLUS the humidifer weigh about 3 pounds! The machine is only a little bigger than my hand, adding the humidifer makes it longer than that of course.
The 420G is a straight CPAP, no recording and no software capabilities, but it does do automatic adjustment for altitude and is setup for overseas usage also. The 420S is straight CPAP but with software capabilities and the 420E is Autopap with all the travel features and software capabilities.
Something to consider...
By the way, my DME required a prescription for APAP. Now we all know that they don't REALLY need that, but they were certainly demanding one anyway.
Jan in Colo.
The 420G is a straight CPAP, no recording and no software capabilities, but it does do automatic adjustment for altitude and is setup for overseas usage also. The 420S is straight CPAP but with software capabilities and the 420E is Autopap with all the travel features and software capabilities.
Something to consider...
By the way, my DME required a prescription for APAP. Now we all know that they don't REALLY need that, but they were certainly demanding one anyway.
Jan in Colo.
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viewtopic.php?p=43635#43635
Adam,
Maybe this will help you. Rested Gal, the resident expert here, started this thread going and knows so much about machines. She was my help when I was getting my machine purchased for me through insurance and gave me some great advice. If only I could find that thread...maybe I can. But in the meantime, check that one out and then, as much as I hate to say this, do a search and you will find loads of info.
Jan is right about the 420e being more portable than a Remstar Auto, although I took mine to Atlantic City with me a few weeks ago and it traveled just fine.
Adam,
Maybe this will help you. Rested Gal, the resident expert here, started this thread going and knows so much about machines. She was my help when I was getting my machine purchased for me through insurance and gave me some great advice. If only I could find that thread...maybe I can. But in the meantime, check that one out and then, as much as I hate to say this, do a search and you will find loads of info.
Jan is right about the 420e being more portable than a Remstar Auto, although I took mine to Atlantic City with me a few weeks ago and it traveled just fine.
L o R i
Adam,
I have to do a lot of traveling too and after doing quite a bit of research I decided that I would like the Resmed S8 units (small and most come with a traveling case 2.9 lbs) nice relatively quiet machine I think with the swift nasal pillows which comes with a case for travel also. The only thing I screwed up was not telling my Dr what S8 machine I wanted. I ended up with the S8 Compact no data collection (which the name means nothing as they are all the same size/weight) instead of the elite that I wanted (straight CPAP with data recording). I don't think that I need an APAP since my pressure is only 11cm/h2o. I don't even notice the pressure and sometimes when I wake up I check to make sure it is running. tomorrow will be two weeks on the hose so far so good.
Dave
I have to do a lot of traveling too and after doing quite a bit of research I decided that I would like the Resmed S8 units (small and most come with a traveling case 2.9 lbs) nice relatively quiet machine I think with the swift nasal pillows which comes with a case for travel also. The only thing I screwed up was not telling my Dr what S8 machine I wanted. I ended up with the S8 Compact no data collection (which the name means nothing as they are all the same size/weight) instead of the elite that I wanted (straight CPAP with data recording). I don't think that I need an APAP since my pressure is only 11cm/h2o. I don't even notice the pressure and sometimes when I wake up I check to make sure it is running. tomorrow will be two weeks on the hose so far so good.
Dave
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