Recliner Naps w/o cpap--How harmful is it ?

For the past couple weeks I have been taking short naps in my Recliner w/o my Machine. Yeah, I know---never sleep w/o cpap but I have my machine stored away daily due to having small G'children living with me so I have not hooked up my machine daily for theses short naps. So Far I have had no adverse effects due to napping w/o cpap and I think it might be to sleeping in the recliner in a raised position. I am sure I will hear how harmful it is to sleep w/o cpap but since I feel well I was curious. I use the Cpap every night while sleeping.

I don't think short naps in a recliner are bad.... since you are mostly upright and your tongue is not falling back into your throat, you are probably breathing fairly well although not as well as you would with cpap. Would using cpap be the better way to go? Of course....but short cat naps in your chair from time to time should be fine.

In my personal case, it's clear that even a little cat nap in the recliner is harmful for me. Even sitting fairly upright, if I fall asleep, after only about 10 minutes or so I have immediate snoring and REFLUX. That's a sure sign of an obstructive event--because the body's attempts to try to get air cause a vacuum effect in the airway, sucking the contents of the stomach and esophagus into the airway.

Sleep apnea is a "death of a thousand cuts". It usually isn't one single even that causes damage to your body, but many small events. I have learned the hard way that even a quick catnap like that is causing harm to my body, and that harm is cumulative.

I miss my recliner naps on the weekend, but my teenager would be mortified if a friend walked in and saw me hooked up to my machine. So I either go in the bedroom for my Saturday nap, or I stay awake. At least it's not so hard to stay awake any more.

I really don't think it's too big of a deal, I do it all the time. I have events when I do it, but it's not like I'm doing that for eight hours every night for years and years. I think that's the thing to really worry about.

I have a backup machine that I use for travel and also keep it in the living room for naps... the times I have not used it I wake up with a sore throat and feel worse than before the nap.

I guess if you CAN do it and sleep without being jerked awake immediately then it should be okay. For me, sleeping without it is not sleeping because I wake immediately and it's so annoying that I get up and go to bed to use my machine. I can't get past the doze stage without it.

I think that's an individual thing. One may have little to no problem in this position, another may still experience significant apneas and all that goes with that. I don't use my machine when napping nearly upright in the recliner. I do however have to use one of those C-shaped neck pillows and position it to make sure my head can't fall forward or backward. If I fall asleep without the pillow, I will wake with all the signs of having had an apnea event. I can't discount this because my naps are often hours, so when I know I'm not real alert, I'll put the pillow in place "just in case". One could always do a check with an auto to see if their pressure rises or at a lower fixed pressure to see if there are events, or sleep with an oximeter on "just in case".

Mimmie wrote:I guess if you CAN do it and sleep without being jerked awake immediately then it should be okay. For me, sleeping without it is not sleeping because I wake immediately and it's so annoying that I get up and go to bed to use my machine. I can't get past the doze stage without it.

I am the same way, when I try to doze off I am jerked awake immediately,every time. So whenever I feel myself getting sleepy I get up and find something to do.
I simply cannot fall asleep anymore in a chair or on the couch,my body will not let me.

In harmony with other answers given . . .

It depends on the severity of one's condition and what other health conditions one has and what one's family history is.

For one person, it may be no big deal at all. For another, it might be taking one's life into one's own hands. Most of us fall somewhere in between, I'm guessing.

Might be a question for one's own sleep doc, really, for a definitive answer for each individual's case.

But good subject and good discussion!

I imagine it would be easy to do your own nap study if you have a data recording CPAP machine. Just set the pressure to its lowest setting and see whether you experience any events.

TooGroggy wrote:I imagine it would be easy to do your own nap study if you have a data recording CPAP machine. Just set the pressure to its lowest setting and see whether you experience any events.

I'm sure that would give some good information. However, 4 cm of PAP is very different from 0 cm of pressure.

jnk wrote:However, 4 cm of PAP is very different from 0 cm of pressure.

Can you elaborate? Would the minimal pressure be enough to present some events?

Maybe an oximeter would be a more reliable way to check what's happening during the nap.

TooGroggy wrote:

jnk wrote:However, 4 cm of PAP is very different from 0 cm of pressure.

Can you elaborate? Would the minimal pressure be enough to present some events?

Maybe an oximeter would be a more reliable way to check what's happening during the nap.

It could prevent some events, from what I understand.

Naps are funny things, though. The length of them can determine what stages of sleep you end up in.

Bottom line is that a very healthy person getting good sleep at night is unlikely to want to nap much, anyway. Sleep hygiene principles can be as important as PAP for being healthy, for some, from what I've read.

It is good to teach the brain that it no longer has to worry about the airway closing when asleep, in my opinion as a patient. So using PAP every time you sleep can be important in that respect, independent of the O2 question and the number of events. The severity of the events and the severity of the body's reaction are important factors that are difficult to quantify with any form of measurement other than how we feel and what was learned during a PSG.

I am no nap expert though.

All I know is that before my sleep got straightened out with PAP, I had to take a nap nearly every day. Now that PAP is working for me, I couldn't take a nap if I wanted to--I don't get tired or sleepy until the evening, when it is natural to feel that way.

That said [nod to the that-said club ], I get it that a good nap can be one of the great pleasures in life, and if someone needs to sleep, hey, he should. If he has very mild OSA with few bad effects and feels better after the nap, I wouldn't begrudge anyone a PAPless nap. Other than that, I'd suggest wearing the mask.

But hey, that's just me.

TooGroggy wrote: Can you elaborate? Would the minimal pressure be enough to present some events?

Maybe an oximeter would be a more reliable way to check what's happening during the nap.

May I offer my thoughts? I would think in theory a pressure of 4 would allow for some events to present themselves but most of us are use to higher pressures and to be honest, I feel like I am suffocating with even a 5 or 6 cm since I am used to around 10 cm. So someone might have not feel comfortable at a lower pressure. Also, bear in mind that some people have more events when they finally get to REM staged sleep. I can nap for an hour in the bed and my auto unit shows absolutely zero events because I am one of those people who don't really do much event wise until REM then I will go over 50 an hour. So all my reports are always much more active starting about 90 to 120 minutes into sleep when I probably get to REM. So in theory I probably could nap without CPAP until I reach REM and not do much damage.

An oximeter may or may not be helpful. A person could have several short term apnea events and may or may not experience a drop in oxygen levels. Sort of, if there is a drop then it indicates an event long enough to desat but the absence of a drop in oxygen doesn't necessarily mean no events. Not all events in all persons will cause a drop in oxygen levels.

So I would think that this issue would have to be evaluated very closely by the individual wanting to do it. There are many factors that can affect the outcome. In theory if we just look at one of the causes of OSA (throat tissues collapsing) then being upright in a recliner might not hurt things but we need to remember that there can be other factors as well. Remember those things called "centrals"? If it were so easy to sleep without events if a person was upright, then a recliner option might be offered instead of CPAP machine.

Just my thoughts and certainly no more than that. If someone wants to take a little nap and try it in a recliner, then just educate themselves on their own particular body's little quirks and do their own detective work. What works for me or someone else, may not work for the next person.

Hi DannyPh and All

There is valuable reading in all these threads. The link takes you to my post (which is the result of my search) but you really need to start at the beginning of each thread, and that will you get the widest possible range of views.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=59046&p=555203&hili ... ap#p555203

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=56440&p=529659&hili ... ap#p529659

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=56300&p=527787&hili ... ap#p527787

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=55411&p=518526&hili ... ap#p518526

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=53587&p=497530&hili ... ap#p497530

but the best advice come from Kathy - as she says above -

I think that's an individual thing. One may have little to no problem in this position, another may still experience significant apneas and all that goes with that. I don't use my machine when napping nearly upright in the recliner. I do however have to use one of those C-shaped neck pillows and position it to make sure my head can't fall forward or backward. If I fall asleep without the pillow, I will wake with all the signs of having had an apnea event.

Follow Kathy's advice and check on how you go with an oximeter, and you will not go far wrong.

cheers

Mars