Aveo TSD - a different approach

OK, here I go into major Lab Rat mode again.
Its been awhile for me, so its about time I "give something back" and try out something new.

I am going to start trialing/experimenting with the Aveo TSD
http://www.titratableappliance.com/inde ... 71929-9166 tongue stabilizing device.

I must say when someone popped up here for the first time they ever posted here and mentioned the device, I was one of the first to question this out of the blue poster from New Zealand. But I am an engineer and an unquenchable curiousity is one of my issues.

It is actually a legitimate device, which was the first question I had, but its new in New Zealand and is just ramping up for introduction into the USA. It may not be for everyone, since OSA is caused by different physical sources for different people, but for people who have a major cause of OSA being tongue related, this could be a solution or maybe used in conjuction with other methods.

I believe the first person that tried the Aveo (0n this forum)did NOT end up sticking with it, but we certainly need more than a sample of one.

I think the Aveo TSD, like any CPAP therapy, if not more so, REQUIRES a functioning nose to work. I am noticing a possible trend that a high percentage of OSA sufferers have sinus/nose blockage issues, which I think should be taken care of no matter what you are doing for treatment.

Wish me luck! this could be a disaster or they could end up selling these things by the truck load, being one of the better deals in CPAP land at only $150 each. Heck, even if they just work to LOWER the CPAP pressure, and maybe stop mouth leaks, they could be worth the price of admission.

I am going to set a baseline with my software on my 420E. Then TRY combining the Aveo with a mask to see if I can get comparitive data. I SHOULD get a flat minimum pressure reading all night with no apneas, if its working.

They do warn it may take a week or so just to get used to the device and sleep in comfort with it and keep it in for the entire night, which I will also have to take into account.

We will see if my optimism is running as high tomorrow, or if i jus stat taaking funny. Stay tuned.....

thank you Snork!

Everyone has to see that video, so simple it's not funny

and that reporter is absolutely beautiful, I'd buy it based on her looks alone

I'm going to see about buying one.

it wa ta fust naht with tha abeo...
Just kidding.. I certainly haven't eliminated the Aveo TSD yet, and my initial reaction is this MIGHT be as good as claimed.
Here is their official website:
http://www.aveosleep.com/

The Aveo will certainly take some getting used to, sort of about on par with getting used to a bicycle seat, in my frame of reference. And it will also take some fiddling to get the adjustment just right, maybe on par with a Swift interface,

My tongue is a bit sore today, partly due to getting too much suction part of the night and still working on getting the position just right. Very much on par with a Swift interface, now that I think of it. The tip of the tongue feels a bit "tingley" and the web under it is a bit sore, but I have trouble with that web if its at all stressed.

I spent a greater portion of the night with both CPAP and Aveo and a couple hours with just the aveo(getting brave already!). I vaguely remember dreaming a fair amount under both conditions, which is a good sign that I was getting into REM sleep, which I don't at all without treatment. Yet the dreams were vague enough to indicate that I was not waking up a lot between dreaming. And this was with some fiddling and definite "getting used to it discomfort.

Drooling was indeed an issue, as forewarned. This is supposed to improve with time. A small towel might be a good idea in the meantime.

Now for the really interesting part....the hard data from my 420E.
Apneas dropped to zero, and only a couple of hypopneas. Usually I have a fair amount of hypopneas even with good therapy, and the sleep doc said to NOT count those in my AHI. On that basis, my AHI was ZERO last night, and my pressure ran at the bottom of the range(6cm) the whole time.

Tonight I am dropping the bottom end of pressure as low as I can without "starving out" to see if it goes lower or still sits at 6cm. And I am taking an Alleve to help with the initial discomfort.

I felt darn good all day, especially considering how few hours of actual sleep I had with all the fiddling. In fact I SEEMED to feel better than my normal "good" CPAP night. And I was running on minimum caffeine today, so that REALLY says a lot.

I am trying to restrain my enthusiasm and maintain objectivity, but I am gettng pretty excited that this sucker (literally) just might work. Further research required.[/url]

Snork,

Where did you get yours from?

mikemoran wrote:Snork,

Where did you get yours from?

I got mine direct from the source, making a connection with the http://www.aveosleep.com guys while I was checking to see if this was a hoax.

My timing just happened to be good, as its fairly new in New Zealand and they are just on the verge of bringing it into the USA. I managed to get a trial device in trade for giving it a FAIR evaluation and trial.

It took weeks for it to make it here. It apparently got hung up in customs while all the customs guys passed it around."hey check this out! Do you think it works?" (OK, just guessing on that one:)

The device seems a bit pricey, but compare it to a dental device or just about any CPAP accessory. If it works or significantly helps, it could be worth it.

BTW, snoring on my data was ZERO. Usually I get at least one or two incidents a night of snoring.

I know a number of people that absolutely will not even consider CPAP even though its obvious they have apnea, I am hoping at the very least it might help them a bit. Or maybe I could use it for travel. Of course best case would be if I could dump the CPAP for this device....I can dream can't I?

Hey snork,

I had the same idea that you had combining the two. The nice thing about the aveo TSD is that with CPAP pressure it blocks the mouth passage off for air through the nose, at least in me. This is great for those that have problems with leakage through the mouth.

It is somewhat pricey if you have to buy it from somewhere, but if it works for you then its worth its weight in gold. I think combining the apap with the aveo TSD is the perfect way to see if the aveo TSD is enough to eliminate your apnea by it self.

I'm currently waiting on a new nasal mask interface to use with my aveo TSD. However, I do believe the aveo TSD does in fact reduce OSA. By how much is a differnt matter but I can tell you that I'm currently also unable to use my APAP machine and the aveo TSD is much BETTER than nothing at all.

I've also had serious problems with nasal congestion and I'm finally starting to see relief (I thought I tried everything, too!!). I'm currently using a nasal irrigation system, nasal crom and flonase. I'm seeing definite relief and am able to breath easily through at least one nostril at most times. This is great results considering I've had my sinuses congested for years. So to those who have severe nasal congestion that prevents you from using a nasal interface, I have to say I've been there and done that. There should be help for you in most cases, just don't give up.


stryker5777


"Please note I'm not a professional nor do I play one on tv so please understand anything I say is from an educated layman's opinion and experience. So please consult your doctor first, and please please DON'T TRY THIS AT HOME..!! ..........Unless your me of course.. "

If the device has FDA approval, there should be at least one or two scientific studies of the device. Anyone have those references? Testimonials are nice, but have little value if not validated by more rigorous data.

Thanks!

Your method of testing is interesting but I don't think it will be accurate.

Let me explain.

Lets say the Tongue Restraining Device reduces your apnea enough to be treated with 4cm. If this is the case, then your software will show no events, but in fact without the pressure you might still be having enough events to warrant additional therapy.

Someone should see if this could be tested in a sleep lab environment. That way there are no other treatment variables that could skew the results.

Would hate to see someone thinking that it is treating them well, when in fact it is only reducing it and still leaving them at risk.

Mikesus wrote: Someone should see if this could be tested in a sleep lab environment.

... and maybe the DMEs could negotiate exclusive rights to sell this thing in the US so that we can all pay $1500 instead of $150

twisted

Evil DME Guest wrote:

Mikesus wrote: Someone should see if this could be tested in a sleep lab environment.

... and maybe the DMEs could negotiate exclusive rights to sell this thing in the US so that we can all pay $1500 instead of $150

twisted

Yeah its all about the money.

I guess its better for someone to "think" they are treated, versus actually proving that they are treated...

Mikesus wrote:Your method of testing is interesting but I don't think it will be accurate... Lets say the Tongue Restraining Device reduces your apnea enough to be treated with 4cm. If this is the case, then your software will show no events, but in fact without the pressure you might still be having enough events to warrant additional therapy.

snork1 in a previous post wrote: Heck, even if they just work to LOWER the CPAP pressure, and maybe stop mouth leaks, they could be worth the price of admission.

Seems to me that snork1 undertsands that he may still need the cpap.

snork1 wrote:
I am going to set a baseline with my software on my 420E. Then TRY combining the Aveo with a mask to see if I can get comparitive data. I SHOULD get a flat minimum pressure reading all night with no apneas, if its working.

No I understood his method. Its based on a false assumption that any pressure coming from the 420 will not skew the results.

And this statement seems to imply that he would rely on these results:

snork1 wrote:
Of course best case would be if I could dump the CPAP for this device....I can dream can't I?

Again, for this device to be "Proven" it needs to be done with a sleep study, the same way that CPAP was proven. Lab ratting is admirable, but proving a device effective will require more than this method.

The intent of your comment I am ignoring (Thanks Ozij!)

I'd point out how your backward logic is reading too much into snork1's thesis, but then I would not be able to ignore your condescending contribution to this thread.

Ignoring that too!

I am on the road at the moment with limited computer access for replying.
I am impressed how closed minded people are to even considering anything besides or to improve on CPAP and the openly antagonistic attitude they take to even exploring or documenting alternatives for good or bad.

My whole point to this thread is to investigate and document a purported option and not just say "It ain't CPAP, its bad". or " I tried it one night and it didn't work for me."
Without saying why and under what conditions, or exploring what ways it MIGHT help SOME people for under SOME conditions.

I think the only thing that is pretty obvious is that apnea has many causes that can combine differently for different people, and that ANYTHING that works or doesn't work for one person may work differently for someone else.

Also method of use is important. We certainly have to do a LOT of tweaking to get CPAP to work!

I would like to have a thread that when people search on a term in the future they might know WHY something is bogus or how it might be useful in some way for some people.

The only real suprise I am seeing here is people's attitudes, which I find sort of sad and very dissappointing.