Test User's Overview of Apnicure's Winx system

Hi all,

If you read my previous thread, you saw I had a sleep study with the Winx system by Apnicure. My one-week trial machine arrived tonight, so I thought I'd give a quick overview and photos of it, because it's totally different from a xPAP machine.

The basic machine:



Here's the complete setup:



xPAP is a positive pressure device, air-splinting the airway by blowing air into you. The winx works the opposite, by creating a vacuum in the mouth, which pulls the tongue forward. There's a couple of important facts which I've concluded as purely a user of xPAP when possibly evaluating Winx:

1) It can only address obstructions due to the tongue falling backwards into the throat, and maybe the soft palette. It doesn't address central type apneas at all.

2) Because it pulls the tongue forward, you breathe normal air pressure through the nose. You can't breathe through your mouth.

3) Because it doesn't hold a pressure with your breathing, it can't detect obstructions or when you stop breathing. So, basically, no data.

4) It "sucks" from your mouth, so I figured it will suck out drool over night. It does. If you create a lot of saliva, it might not work.

So, I think it's an interesting therapy, very different than CPAP. Due to my problems with CPAP (NOT a problem in simply using it - it just doesn't work all the way for me for whatever reason. My AHI is 0 most nights!)



You can see how big it is compared to a resmed S9 vpap adapt. It looks like it will travel very easily. Same requirements for needing power as CPAP - not sure how it would work on battery if you were that type. The only buttons are the top "release" button for the saliva tank, and the start/stop button. These early models don't have any type of end-user data. I imagine it could eventually collect some data on how well the vacuum is maintained.

During the sleep study, the device had to be set on a folded towel to mute the noise a bit. It's very quiet, except for the vibration. About the same as a quiet CPAP I think. I'll be able to tell more tonight when I use it.



This is the mouthpiece you wear. There's two pipes leading from it. One is supposed to suck air away to create the vacuum, the other sucks saliva. Or so I was told.

In my experience, it sucks itself to the top of your mouth, and then the tongue follows it. The vacuum is a bit weird, but not uncomfortable. Certainly, not worse than CPAP was the first night by a mile. I have worn a dental appliance, so that might make it easier for me. I believe the mouthpiece gets replaced every 3 months if you're a user, and you clean it with plain water.

In my one night with it at the sleep study, I felt like my tongue had gone through a strenuous workout the next day, but it wasn't too bad. I imagine some users will have problems with it, depending on your tongue, and it's certainly strange. Getting the vacuum will be another problem - for me, it was simply trying to swallow. I felt like the lips felt sealed pretty easily and I could release the vacuum easily anytime I wanted.



You can see the saliva tank here, popped out of the winx. There's a cup with a thingy in it, and you screw the top on. You empty it out each night. If it gets full, the top of it detects that it's full and turns the device off. I'm not sure if that creates an alarm sound or not, yet.



close-up of the top of the saliva tank. If this part is wet at all, it will cause the device to turn off.

So, this is all pretty much a shot in the dark for me. I'm hoping it will help, or be better than CPAP. Since there's not really data, I'm going to have to go by how I feel. I have been pretty accurate in how I feel in terms of CPAP data to back me up.

If there's any questions about it, let me know!

Interesting. Like to hear more as your experience with it unfolds. Thanks for sharing.

Thanks for the write-up/pictures/explanations. I am sure many will follow this thread. I hope it works well for you!

Good luck Xney! I hope this provides the necessary therapy that your PAP has yet to provide you. Thanks for the information about the Winx. I look forward to hearing more about your one week trial experience with this machine.

I'm right across the bridge to these guys. I'll give this a shot if they have a money back guarantee and if the price is reasonable, on par with cpap machines. My OSA is mild and low pressure.

I really expect it to be great for some people, and worthless for others. xPAP can work for most people, but I'll be pretty different for this thing.

One of the interesting things the tech told me is that for people like me who had mostly hypopneas, it seems there's a higher chance of it working. I'm just hoping it does, I've tried literally everything. Trying to not get my hopes up too much..

I hope it works for you, but you lost me at "Saliva Tank". *shudder*

Report of the first night: a bit of an adjustment trying to use it, which I totally expected. Like when I used a dental appliance, struggling somewhat to deal with the extra saliva at the start. With the appliance, that decreased over time, so I think that will also happen with the winx. I seemed to be more adjusted by the morning.

I woke up once without it in, not sure how long. I suspect they will offer software to check how much you're using it, but there isn't any at this point. Too new.

For comfort, it wasn't too bad. I'm eager to see how it goes tonight and tomorrow night, which will give me a better idea. I feel tired this morning due to the struggles of sleeping, and the time without it, but it feels a little different from the normal xPAP tired in a way. not sure if it's better or worse yet.

Interesting enough, the saliva tank was almost empty. I thought it'd be overflowing, or it's what it felt like trying to sleep, but no big deal this morning. This is good, because it's one less thing to worry about. The tech mentioned some people buy a second tank to have one ready to go in case it fills up overnight. (Due to the sensor having to be completely dry, you can't just empty it if it gets 100% full)

Following this thread with interest!

BTW, which oral appliance did you try?

Uh I'd have to look up the name, it was a good quality one. It's just that moving the jaw forward didn't reduce the hypopneas enough. It went from 42 AHI (all hypops) to like 21 AHI (all hypops).

Honestly, sleeping on the winx seems easier than the dental appliance. Sleeping on my stomach was hard with the dental appliance.

Night 2: It seemed quite a bit easier to sleep last night with it, not that the first night was that challenging. Still waking up a few times with it, but overall got asleep more quickly and stayed asleep more. Tongue and mouth feel decent waking up, better today than yesterday. It feels a lot like the dental appliance I used for a few months, except without the jaw movement, and more tongue fatigue. (Hmm that sounds bad? *laugh*) I expect at this rate that in a few days it will be very easy to sleep with.

One thing I need to figure out is how to route this hose. It's a very, very flexible hose, which is great, but I tend to turn side to side a lot. With the stiffer CPAP hoses, they actually route more easily overhead or whatever. This (very thin) hose is so flexible it actually tends to flop around more and not stay in place. I think what I'll do is route it more overhead and keep it in place more with the hose buddy. With the CPAP hose, I could just loosely take it overhead to my Swift LT mask. With the Winx, another option I might check out is to put it under the pillow or hang it from directly overhead.

(I'm a huge fan of the Swift LT and Aloha ability to route the hose overhead)

In terms of sleep quality, last night felt better than the first night. I'd put it at something like 40% improvement, which is about average for a CPAP night.

Is that mask in your avatar how it is attached?

I don't understand how it works.

No, that's my swift LT mask (and taping). The Winx is worn in the mouth, with two tubes coming out of it to pull air (and saliva) out.

You wear it like a dental guard, kind of. It creates a vacuum at the roof of your mouth, which sucks the tongue up to the top of your mouth. This creates space behind in your throat when you sleep, which can potentially help/fix sleep apnea, much like CPAP does by creating a "cushion" of air. You then breathe normally through your nose for sleep.

That is, if everything works properly. Not everybody's apnea will be addressed with this movement of the tongue, and not everybody can wear the mouth piece. It's very new, still, and works totally differently than a CPAP. It's much more like an oral appliance you can get for sleep apnea/snoring, but done with air instead of moving the jaw.

Can air leak out of the mouth from this? Can you still use a CPAP with nasal pillow?

I like the air supply my machine gives me due to my constant congested nose