Philips Respironics System One question

Hi all!
I am presently trying out a PRS1 without the heater tube. The supplier wants me to try it out before ordering another upgraded heater hose model as I was disatisfied with the Resmed S9 units mainly because of the inhalation sound and difficulty seeing how much water there was left.
In any event I really like the PRS1 unit. The water level is easily displayed and the respiration noise is muffled in comparison to the S9 unit. I presently have it set at Flex 3 which works well for me but was wondering what the difference is between the humidifier setting of Classic (C), and System One (O) ? The other setting is for heater hose which this machine does not have. I presently have it set for (O) and a level of 3 and it doesn't seem to be using much water. Perhaps 1/2 an inch per evening and the heater plate doesn't seem to be warm to the touch when I slide out the water tray. Is this normal?

cam1 wrote:Hi all!
I am presently trying out a PRS1 without the heater tube. The supplier wants me to try it out before ordering another upgraded heater hose model as I was disatisfied with the Resmed S9 units mainly because of the inhalation sound and difficulty seeing how much water there was left.
In any event I really like the PRS1 unit. The water level is easily displayed and the respiration noise is muffled in comparison to the S9 unit. I presently have it set at Flex 3 which works well for me but was wondering what the difference is between the humidifier setting of Classic (C), and System One (O) ? The other setting is for heater hose which this machine does not have. I presently have it set for (O) and a level of 3 and it doesn't seem to be using much water. Perhaps 1/2 an inch per evening and the heater plate doesn't seem to be warm to the touch when I slide out the water tray. Is this normal?

The Prs1 has an auto humidity sensor. . .have no idea what it's actually called, but it regulates the humidity your machine delivers to you to make sure it is consistent. If the temperature in your bedroom drops below a specific amount (I think it's around 55 degrees, but please don't quote me on it) the humidifier will turn off, and you won't get much in the way of humidity. This is to keep condensation from building up in the tube. (I fought this battle all winter last year).

My DME showed me how to test the humidifier to make sure it's working correctly. Turn the humidifier all the way up to the highest level (it should be 5 if the heated hose is not connected). With the water chamber in place, but EMPTY, run the machine for five minutes. When five minutes is up, take out the humidifier chamber and touch the bottom. It should be very warm to the touch, but should not burn you. If it is not warm, you need to take the machine back to your dme and have it exchanged under warranty.

Temperature of the bedroom has no bearing on the machine humidifier itself. Humidifier won't shut off based on room temp. Now room temperature, if cooler, has a bearing on the chance of rain out developing.

Ambient room humidity will have impact on the machine when used in the New Humidification System mode which is the default mode. This mode uses less heat and less water because it takes into account the ambient room humidity with those little sensors.
Classic Mode is what I call the old fashioned mode...like we all used for years before the machines had heated hoses and temperature controls. It's simply heat. The higher the setting...the greater the amount of moisture added to the air going to the mask.

So System One humidification using the fancy sensors will use less water and less heat. If your ambient room humidity is already fairly high it won't use much water. Down side to it is if you like a cold bedroom the air going to the nose might be comfortably cold. I had this happen to me. Up side is it feels good in summer.

Classic Mode (shows on the clinical menu with a C in front of setting) uses more heat and more water.

Sounds like you are using the default new Humidification System (or it would show "off" on the screen by that choice) and it wouldn't be unheard of for it to barely use much water at a setting of 3. It depends on the ambient room humidity. If it is already fairly high then the machine won't heat up much and thus not use much water.

I'll boil this down (no pun intended) to a several sentences, since I've got a PR Sys 1 and have tried both humidifier modes:

If you live in a fairly warm clime you MAY get by with the PR Sys 1 default humidifier settings. I live in CA and found that they don't really heat the water in the reservoir at all... even at the highest setting of 5. After the machine supposedly warms up, you can put your hand on the metal element and you feel nothing, repeat nothing, ie. a total waste of time. On the other hand, if you switch to 'Classic Mode' (to enable it, use search box at the top) you will find that you can span a total range of water temps from lukewarm to really warm. Sounds perfect right? Unfortunately if you use the higher settings in a cool room you will get rainout. Solution: Buy an aftermarket heated hose like the Hibernite or the Australian version, who's name I've forgotten.

Pugsy wrote:Ambient room humidity will have impact on the machine when used in the New Humidification System mode which is the default mode. This mode uses less heat and less water because it takes into account the ambient room humidity with those little sensors.

The provider manual says it monitors room temperature and humidity, and there is a humidity sensor inside the blower unit.

The important point is that if you don't get enough humidity in System One humidification mode, experiment with classic mode. You may use more water or get rainout in the hose. The humidity may vary more from night to night as well.

One of the many CPAP things you have to tinker with and find what "fits" you.

archangle wrote: The provider manual says it monitors room temperature and humidity

Yes, but it won't turn the humidifier off if the room gets below such and such degrees. That was what I meant about no impact on humidifier because someone had mentioned that the humidifier would turn itself off at a certain room temperature.

Wonder what it does with the temperature that it monitors? More uber secret stuff I guess.

I run in classic mode all winter and it gets pretty cold in our house, although our heat will kick on if the temp drops below 55 at night (rarely). I wouldn't say the water in the CPAP tank ever gets particularly warm, what I can say is that it's not freezing cold like in default mode (which feels like an Arctic blast--great in summer, miserable in winter). It doesn't even get warm when I run it at a setting of 5 when I have a snuffy nose from a cold.

I will say that I have NEVER experienced rainout in the hose, even on the coldest nights, so it definitely does its job to prevent that.

If you are expecting warm, moist, sauna-like air, then go for the heated hose. If you just want fairly comfortable air that has adequate humidity but no rainout, then you're fine without the fancy heated hose.

Personally, I don't like warm air in my CPAP. When our heat kicks on in the morning (programmed thermostat), it warms the intake air and I feel like I'm suffocating.

Pugsy wrote:

archangle wrote: The provider manual says it monitors room temperature and humidity

Yes, but it won't turn the humidifier off if the room gets below such and such degrees. That was what I meant about no impact on humidifier because someone had mentioned that the humidifier would turn itself off at a certain room temperature.

Wonder what it does with the temperature that it monitors? More uber secret stuff I guess.

You sort of need both a humidity and temperature sensor to figure out the "real" humidity. I think I read that they try to regulate the "absolute" humidity. If you know room air temp, humidity and total leak rate, you should be able to control the humidity at the mask by controlling the temperature of the water.

You also need the temperature if you're trying to avoid rainout without a heated hose.

archangle wrote: You sort of need both a humidity and temperature sensor to figure out the "real" humidity. I think I read that they try to regulate the "absolute" humidity. If you know room air temp, humidity and total leak rate, you should be able to control the humidity at the mask by controlling the temperature of the water.

You also need the temperature if you're trying to avoid rainout without a heated hose.

I see it in a 60 series machine.
I don't see it in a 50 series machine. I had a bunch of rain out in my 50 series without a heated hose (using the fancy humidification system) and the rain out was in the hose...but of course I keep a cold bedroom. So I don't think gathering the temperature does a whole lot.

I should have mentioned that mine is the new REMSTAR SE. It does not have a dial knob. It is all black with 4 pad touch buttons on the front. The first one is RAMP, the second and third are L/R ARROWS and the 4th one is ON/OFF. That's it!
There is a display board above the buttons approsimately 3 inches wide. I've checked 'you tube' and other sites but can't find this model It must be the new model I think. Anyway, I was just curious about the Classic and System One settings but I am leaving it on System One with a level 3 on humidification. Only seem to be down about a 1/4 inch of water every night but seems to be OK. My old F & P use to go through 1/2 a cup to one cup every night.

Pugsy wrote:Temperature of the bedroom has no bearing on the machine humidifier itself. Humidifier won't shut off based on room temp. Now room temperature, if cooler, has a bearing on the chance of rain out developing.

What is "rainout"?

pikov22 wrote:What is "rainout"?

Condensation in the mask or hose.

wiki/index.php/Rainout

cam1 wrote:I should have mentioned that mine is the new REMSTAR SE.

This model doesn't have all the same features as the PR System One machines that look like this
https://www.cpap.com/cpap-machine/respi ... -flex.html

About all I know about the Remstar SE is that it is a basic entry level machine that they are touting CFlex as being the next best thing since sliced bread and CFlex has been around for many years.

Pugsy wrote:

pikov22 wrote:What is "rainout"?

Condensation in the mask or hose.

wiki/index.php/Rainout

They couldn't just call it "condensation"????

Thanks.

Pugsy wrote:I see it in a 60 series machine.
I don't see it in a 50 series machine. I had a bunch of rain out in my 50 series without a heated hose (using the fancy humidification system) and the rain out was in the hose...but of course I keep a cold bedroom. So I don't think gathering the temperature does a whole lot.

It's there in the DS150 through the 750 model in the flow generator. Doesn't mean they know how to use it to keep rainout away.

Don't the 60 series machines have a humidity sensor in the heated hose? Or is that on the S9 hoses?