Better sleep with Tylenol?

So I've only had the PR System One with the ability to look at the sleep data for about a month. I've been following the data closely and experimenting with settings and different things to try to sleep better.

One thing I found from the data was my AHI is not too bad at all, some nights as low as .2 !

The problem I found was many nights I am only sleeping between 1 and 1.5 hours a shot before waking up - all night long.

I have asthma, GERD, and prostate issues, and other aches and pains. Trying to figure out if any of those things are helping to wake me up.

After extensive experimentation, including different drugs and raising the head of my bed a few inches, I'm finding that one thing seems to dramatically help my sleep - Tylenol.

On 1000mg, I'm able to sleep up to 4:40 at one time!

I never particularly found Tylenol to relieve my pain. Advil works better for me when I'm awake, but Advil did not seem to make me sleep better, in fact I think I slept worse on Advil.

Did anyone else ever find Tylenol makes them sleep better? And any theories on why? Is it controlling my pain in a way that I can't perceive?

Lee

Tylenol is very toxic for your liver and it is easy to overdose on it. Find something safer to use. Note Advil and Tylenol are not the same compound at all so they will not do the same thing for you. Advil is much safer to control pain.

My family doctor said that there is nothing in aspirin or Tylenol to relax the muscles and help you to sleep (we're NOT talking Tylenol PM here, just plain Tylenol). HOWEVER, I am here to tell you that Tylenol (and before they took it away from me, aspirin) DO do something to us to allow us to relax and sleep. At least it does for me, and obviously for you too. Maybe we have underlying chronic pain we are no longer even consciously aware of, I don't know, but I do know Tylenol helps me get to sleep!

If you are using Tylenol thru out the day as well as at night you are overdoing it at 1000 mg for the night time dose. I'm only using 750 mg (Tylenol Rapid Release) once a day at bedtime.

It could be managing the pain in a manner you don't see.
Use caution with Tylenol and stay within the recommended 24 dosage and you should be fine.
You might also try plain aspirin if your stomach can handle it.
I can handle aspirin but my stomach cannot handle the NSAIDs like Advil or Motrin.

Given your fragmented sleep anything that lets you sleep a bit longer is well worth it. If you just take the Tylenol at bedtime you should be fine. I would also mention this to your doctor just as a precaution. He would know best if there is something in your medical history that would preclude using Tylenol or any of the other NSAIDs. There might even be something else that is benign that you could take to help with the pain and wake ups. I have tried several things and have found that a very low dose of generic Elavil works pretty well. Not the high doses that knock a person on their ass but just a little 10 mg at bedtime. While I have never been officially diagnosed with Fibromalgia that may be what is going on.

I have arthritis and serious continuing pain. I now take Tylenol 2X500 MG three or four times a day. One of the the recognitions coming out of the Vioxx lawsuit is that Ibuprofen, Naproxen and other NSAID's except for aspirin are unsafe for the heart, and arteries to varying degrees (also not good for the stomach).

The last recommend on Tylenol was that one should not take it if one has liver or kidney problems, (unless under close medical recommend) (a longer list than that) and some say never more than three grams a day, properly spaced. Never more than 1000 every four hours. Used to be 4 X 1000.

My doc said it is far easier to keep pain under control than to get it under control, so take the pills based on time, not wait until I hurt.

Tylenol is a commonly used pain killer in hospitals because it considered the safest. If one takes Acetaminophen (the chemical name for Tylenol) then it can give a bit of pain relief after 15 or twenty minutes. If one takes the max dose of Acetaminophen at the max dose every day for ten days or so, then one can build up blood level of it so it can give a far greater pain relief, and this treatment was used in the 1990's in place of narcotics of terminal cancer, and was considered as good a pain reliever. Not sure whether the medical community still has such a high opinion of max dosage of Acetaminophen.

In my opinion Acetaminophen works because I can suffer enough pain to keep me awake, but not even be aware of exactly which joint is hurting. I routinely wake up four and half hours after I take Acetaminophen. If I take it during the night I write down the time so I will know when I can take it in the morning after I get up.

Tylenol PM can last up to eight hours and includes, Diphenhydramine HCl 25 mg. I thought it was an slow release formula and lasts eight hours. Given the similarities in the capsules, my doc told me not have the long release capsules around the house if I was also going to have the 500 MG around.

For men over thirty, it is also good to either eat half a tomato (cooked or uncooked makes no difference), or take Lycopene as it reduces the swelling of the prostate and keep away frequent trips to the bathroom at night.

Edit: Doc also said that if the heart feels stressed, as happens when sleep apnea is occurring, then the body tells the kidneys to help out by dumping fluid. On a weird note, I need to go to the bathroom at night less often if my body is hydrated, even if it means drinking water just before I go to sleep.

That is my experience and knowledge. But do what you think right for yourself.

Lee are you referring to Tylenol, or Tylenol PM? Tylenol (Acetaminophen) shouldn't affect anything regarding sleep itself, though it may help pain that prevents you from sleeping. Tylenol PM adds another ingredient (Diphenhydramine HCl) which does help sleep. However, if you aren't in pain you can buy Diphenhydramine HCl without Acetaminophen under other brands (Sleep Aids). However in both cases, caution is warranted. Tylenol can cause liver and damage and stomach ulcers if taken too much (really all NSAIDS can including Ibuprofen (Advil), Naproxen Sodium (Aleve), Acetaminophen (Tylenol), or acetyl-salicylic acid (Asprin)). Furthermore, Diphenhydramine HCl can cause extended drowsiness (sleepy then next day) and rebound insomnia (can't sleep the next night, drug becomes less effective). All in all, it's best to find other means to sleep than to use over the counter drugs on a daily basis. They are always best used for acute symptoms.

EDIT: My apologies, Acetaminophen is apparently not classified as an NSAID like Asprin, Advil and Alleve. (learn something new every day) Never the less the cautionary statement still holds true.

All good info and very interesting.

First, I know why you get up less to go to the bathroom if you drink more! The Urologist told me a while ago that when you drink, it dilutes your urine with more water in your bladder. Diluted urine is less iratating to your bladder, and you actually will feel less need to void than if you drank less! (Theoritically)

I am concerned about taking any med, any more than I need to. But, Pugsy and I both think that it's also NO good to be getting horrible sleep. I can't take the PM, because the Benadyrl in it makes me crazy, and also increases my Prostate symptoms immediately.

Even though I only take one Advil at a time, with the maximum dose being 4 every 4-6 hours, I still think it's too much. I am VERY concerned about the heart, stomach, GI, and artery effects of Advil. My current thinking is Tylenol is much safer.

I never take Tylenol regularly, until now that I found it seems to help my sleep dramatically. I know they just reduced the maximum safe dose listed on it, the main reason being a lot of people take things like cough or cold medicines not knowing there is Tylenol in them, and then more Tylenol on top of that, which leads to an overdose. I tend to think 750 or 1000 should be safe, even though I am also on Crestor. I WILL ask the doctor what he thinks if I find I need to continue to take it in order to sleep. I'm also going to ask the sleep doctor, if I manage to get in to see him. His appointments are running two months in advance!

Pugsy, I will have to look into the whole Elavil thing, but good information to have.

I also wake up due to feeling hungry, but I wonder if I was sleeping normally if I would be sleeping so soundly that I would not feel the hunger?

I would love to know what about the Tylenol seems to help my sleep so much!

Lee

purple wrote:Tylenol is a commonly used pain killer in hospitals because it considered the safest.

Acetaminophen is heavily used in hospitals because of marketing and profit reasons. They get the pills at a very cheap price and charge the patient several dollars per dose. The drug companies heavily market acetaminophen to hospitals.

One thing almost everyone will agree on is that overdoses of acetaminophen are very, very bad. They can paralyze your liver temporarily, which can lead to damage to the liver and other organs. This is VERY bad if it happens. It can be fatal or worse.

Be very careful not to take multiple products containing acetaminophen. For instance, taking pain pills plus NyQuil can get you over the limit of acetaminophen.

Because of the unusual way acetaminophen becomes toxic to your liver, I'm not particularly worried about long term liver damage unless you OD on it, or have a preexisting liver problem.

Just keep in mind while all medicines have benefits to their use (yea I know there have been meds where that wasn't true), many also can cause harm. Make sure you know before you dose.

I received 9 units of blood that belonged to someone else. It was from long-term NSAID usage and it came close to killing me.

Even though I only take one Advil at a time, with the maximum dose being 4 every 4-6 hours, I still think it's too much. I am VERY concerned about the heart, stomach, GI, and artery effects of Advil. My current thinking is Tylenol is much safer.

No it is NOT safer. It is actually more dangerous then Advill. There is a lower tighter threshold for Tylenol, it does major damage to the liver . Advil does damage to the kidneys but it is harder to overdose on it.

They do two different things and treat different kinds of pain.

Advil (ibuprofen) is a non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drug (NSAID) and works by stopping the production of chemicals (Prostaglandins and cycloxygenase) that cause inflammation and increase pain. Advil's main way of working is to reduce inflammation (swelling) and therefore reduce pain, it's other pain killing abilities is more secondary to it's inflammation reducing properties.

Tylenol (acetaminophen / paracetamol) is a simple painkiller which also reduces fever. It works by acting on prostaglandin production (like Advil) but also works on the final cycloxygenase molecule rather than on it's production like Advil does. We think, because Tylenol's complete mechanism of action is not known.

Okay, so how safe is 750 to 1000 a night, and NO more, for long periods of time?

IAMAwake, could you elaborate on your story? ARe you saying their was a problem with the blood itself, or that long term NSAID use almost killed you?

I have serious chronic issues with my back and somewhat with my knees. Advil is the drug of choice. I like it more than Celebrex because it does not act for 24 hours like Celebrex does. I have more control over when I dose with it, and whether I take 1,2,3, or 4 pills at a time.

But how unsafe is Advil? And how safe is a limited dose of Tylenol every night? Those are the questions!

I WILL ask the doctors what they think about all of this. WHEN I finally get to see them!

Lee

I do not say Acetaminophen is safe, and less safe using it for a long period of time. However, Ibuprofen:

http://www.webmd.com/heart-disease/hear ... rt-failure

Common pain relievers raise heart risk for healthy people

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/201 ... eart_N.htm

Please keep in mind that what is going on in the heart also occurs in the other parts of the body; the brain, eyes, and kidneys.

Some studies show Naproxen to be less safe than Ibuprofen, others say Ibuprofen is worse.

Perhaps a bit off topic: One of the claims made by Merck when an early study showed Vioxx had high cardiac risk compared to other NSAID's was that other NSAID's were displaying a cardio protective effect. The general medical community knew long before Vioxx was released to the public that NSAID's were related to higher rates of cardiac problems. Merck was telling a bald faced lie while saying VIoxx was safe, and no one called them on it.

lee_leses wrote:Okay, so how safe is 750 to 1000 a night, and NO more, for long periods of time?

I would think it would be safe enough. I just think it is always a good idea to discuss long term use of any drug with your physician. He is going to be the one best to know if your liver studies might already have a red flag looming on the horizon. He will know about any possible interaction. He will know if the benefits out weighs the risks. I take Ultram daily for pain. I have taken it for over 20 years. I don't exceed the recommended dosage. It is known to cause liver damage also. I have yearly labs where liver function studies are done. They are still normal and haven't change any over the years.

You do have to find something that enables you to sleep longer than 2 hours at a time to have any hope of ever feeling decent. For this reason I always suggest that you bring your doctor in on what you want to try. Get his input. Weigh the benefits against the risks. Sometimes that is just what we have to do. I can't take the Ultram in the evening. Wires me up something fierce despite that drowsiness warning. So I have to take something else at bedtime for the pain.
Sometimes I have to take an opiate (hydrocodone)...yes I know it can make my sleep apnea a bit worse but if I don't take it sometimes I wake up 20 times due to pain. It is an acceptable risk and trade off that my doctor and myself have discussed and are willing to take.

I'm not that concerned about acetaminophen as long as you don't take more than the recommended dose. This includes taking two different medicines that include acetaminophen and not realizing you're ODing on acetaminophen.

Acetaminophen also has the risk that the ratio between a safe does and a dangerous dose is smaller than many other common drugs. People get the impression that acetaminophen is "safe" and may double up on the dose. Don't do that.

There's also a concern about taking it if you have something else affecting your liver at the same time.

I'm personally not as concerned about NSAIDS such as aspirin, ibuprofen, etc. and bleeding or stomach trouble. Yes, bleeding is a possible side effect. Yes, it can kill or seriously injure you. You do need to consider bleeding problems if you're taking NSAIDS. To me, it just doesn't seem as "sneaky" as something that up and shuts down or kills your liver.

If you are taking aspirin or other NSAIDS on a regular basis, you do need to watch for signs of bleeding. Blood in stool or urine. Black tarry stools, dark urine, coughing up blood, easy bleeding, or easy bruising can be a symptom to watch. You usually get over it pretty quickly if you survive.

NSAIDS and stomach trouble is another thing to watch out for. Still not as scary as liver damage. Also more easily reversed once you stop taking the drugs.

We should still be concerned about doing too much aspirin or other NSAIDS over time. Almost any drug is bad in some way, and shouldn't be thought of as good stuff in general.

AmIawake, what were you taking and how much?

This is a good thread. I just had this same discussion with my Dr yesterday. My stress level is pretty high these days and I find myself often waking up at some time during the night. Usually I can fall back to sleep but if I can't, one 500mg Tylenol seems to relax me. My Dr said there are no sleep-promoting properties in Tylenol so I may be having a "placebo" effect but even if I took one every night, there's no harm. He did mention to be aware of mixing and matching if other meds such as cold/cough medicines are taken during the day. I also have routine blood work done every 6months as part of my semi-annual checkups. It's very curious that many notice better sleep, I'd love to find a definitive answer.